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Old September 27th, 2012, 13:28   #31
Danke
 
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No offense taken, us old-timers do talk up a storm.

To the OP.
Read the thread below first. It describes how a fully grown/mature/self determining/waiver signing person was injured in an airsoft game and his "guardian" now has to decide if they should crush the offending party like a bug. Even if it turns out to be a false alarm when the machine gears up and gets a bug up it's ass it is ugly. If someone decides it's time to make an example of this group they'll lobby their superiors for a hunting license.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=145801

After reading the thread imagine this.

Little Billy's dad brings him and his friend to a game. He's done it a few times and it's gone well. But after one game the kid gets hurt. Has to go to the hospital and earns a scar on his face. Maybe not even a BB, maybe he climbed up one the structures and caught a nail.

Billy's dad says boys will be boys. Billy's mom is less willing to let go. She talks it up with her circle of friends. She realizes her little prince will "never be a model" (quote from a dog bite case). She gets the lawyer, she gets maybe a few anti's lined up, she gets on the news. So it gets kicked up to the insurance provider for the property. Maybe they decide the policy does not cover this and they put you in the wind, and it'll just keep getting worse.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 13:57   #32
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Out of all the sports I've seen kids play, I'd have to say football is the most dangerous. I was involved with martial arts and hockey when I was younger; and although there is risk, it's actually not that bad. I've watched my friends kids play football a few times at the 8 - 15 years old level; and I saw a broken arm, a broken back, as well as a few other bang ups. This was all within a few games. I think airsoft in it's most basic form, is not as dangerous to mortal health. But then again I'd rather break my arm or my ankle than lose an eye.

The other issue that I have brought up before, is that there is no certified league or regulating body to truly protect these kids. A group of people who have set up proper insurance, and regulate things like FPS, and safety gear at a certain age range. I know that youths can be good players, and exhibit sportsmanship and maturity, but where is the line. It's great that you take the time to explain the risks to the players and parents, but who appointed you? Who regulates/governs you? Who comes out and makes sure your facility is up to code and adequately safe? Who decided on what "properly engineered" safety gear is mandatory to protect those that cannot protect themselves? Who dictates boundaries like FPS, age ranges, or other protective regulations? Does your field have an dedicated outside phone line, first aid trained staff, an AED on site, a rescue/evac/fire plan? Who is your governing body? Do you have detailed pamphlets, documents, and paperwork for the parents to go through that "detail in entirety" the risks, game dynamics, and laws associated with airsoft? Did you answer no to any of those questions?

It "may" be safer than playing hockey, football, etc. But where is the regulated league with the proper insurances and safety? Who can guarantee that these kids will be adequately protected, reasonably safe, and that "all" due diligence has been exercised? That's why these things exist, because in the Canadian legal system a parent can't just "sign away the rights of their children". There is many legal facets that have to in place prior to this happening and before it will be considered legal.

I think kids can very effectively play airsoft, and that they should. But there's a right way, and everything else is just very wrong. If parents want their kids away from the xbox, they can sign them up for karate, hockey, basketball, ...whatever. Or maybe someone should spend the massive amounts of money and years of time to set up a properly regulated league. That way everyone is legally protected, and the safety of the youths is being carefully observed.

...Unless you think you know better?

I'm not trying to call anyone out here, just put things into perspective.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 15:06   #33
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I want you to stop putting kids on your field. Tell your airsoft group leader that it's just unacceptable. IF one of those little kids get hurt in a major way, you will be held responsible. It's just a bad idea overall. I don't have much to say for the sniper action though, I don't know how big the field is. Anyway, if one of those kids get majorly hurt, it could make the news and then the public will view airsoft as some crazy dangerous sport, and we of course don't want that. We have to show the public that we airsofters are responsible and mature people. But still, 8 year olds who get dropped off? What are parents thinking these days .. seriously. I was 17 and my mom wouldn't let me go airsofting!
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Old September 27th, 2012, 20:41   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickssj21 View Post
I want you to stop putting kids on your field. Tell your airsoft group leader that it's just unacceptable. IF one of those little kids get hurt in a major way, you will be held responsible. It's just a bad idea overall. I don't have much to say for the sniper action though, I don't know how big the field is. Anyway, if one of those kids get majorly hurt, it could make the news and then the public will view airsoft as some crazy dangerous sport, and we of course don't want that. We have to show the public that we airsofters are responsible and mature people. But still, 8 year olds who get dropped off? What are parents thinking these days .. seriously. I was 17 and my mom wouldn't let me go airsofting!
I'm as much worried about what will happen if anyone gets hurt as the next person.

Do any of you think it should be a good idea to show our group "leader" this thread or do you think it'll make a bigger mess?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 20:44   #35
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The only thing I'd show him is the door.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 20:50   #36
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The only thing I'd show him is the door.
I laughed pretty hard at that.

I would show him the thread. There's no reason not to educate him about this kind of stuff. He can even posts his own reasons and opinions, so that things can be clarified for him, and the opposite side of the coin (the dangers, etc) can be explained to him.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 21:47   #37
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Originally Posted by чума View Post
I'm as much worried about what will happen if anyone gets hurt as the next person.

Do any of you think it should be a good idea to show our group "leader" this thread or do you think it'll make a bigger mess?
how old is your leader?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 23:28   #38
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Originally Posted by R.I.T.Z View Post
how old is your leader?
29 I think.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 23:31   #39
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And he wants 10 year old kids at his games? What's his username? Atre.. Nevermind...
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Old September 27th, 2012, 23:41   #40
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Originally Posted by чума View Post
29 I think.
At that age, you would think he would know better about the liabilities that he is potentially exposing you to, or he simply doesn't care.

You haven't yet clarified what his role as a "team leader" is .. could you clarify that?
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Old September 27th, 2012, 23:45   #41
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Take me to your Leader.

I would advise your leader to grab a cup of maturity with some intelligence sprinkled in.

From reading this thread, it appears he does not understand, common sense, common law and "The Standard of a Reasonable Man"

If is it your ground, you are the one that will be put in the legal blender. Someone will hire the crack legal team of Dewey Cheatum and Howe. Your family will quickly find itself involved in a lenghty and costly legal affair. Best case scenario, you waste 30,000 in legal fees, and walk out of it. Worst case scenario, you waste 200,000 in legal fees, and have a civil and or criminal judgement against you.

Ask yourself a simple question, how much of my ass to I want hanging in the wind.

Waivers are a good start, but not foolproof. Depending on how your waiver is worded, and presented to the participant. Along with your actions that support the waiver, you may have no issues.

Start allowing non guardian/parent monitored and supervised players, and this could quickly blow up in your face.

If your "Leader" is soo keen to have what he wants. Have him put up the Liability Insurance. Have him take all the responsibility from you, by renting the land from you during the events.

But ultimately it is your land, do as you wish. If you provide a venue that has value, people will show up.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 23:56   #42
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He isn't a member of any of the forums. He runs the group so he plans when the games will be. There is a web site >>> http://www.cvairsoft.ca/ <<< He also runs the Facebook page & group. I said before we have 2 fields mine and one that is on crown land (just found that out) He also does night games once a month....
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Old September 28th, 2012, 00:01   #43
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Originally Posted by чума View Post
He isn't a member of any of the forums. He runs the group so he plans when the games will be. There is a web site >>> http://www.cvairsoft.ca/ <<< He also runs the Facebook page & group. I said before we have 2 fields mine and one that is on crown land (just found that out) He also does night games once a month....
So.. he's running a business, and making money off of the potential legal risk that you run.

Crown land? Has he got permissions to actually do that? I don't think that would fly in Onterrible...
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Old September 28th, 2012, 00:07   #44
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So.. he's running a business, and making money off of the potential legal risk that you run.

Crown land? Has he got permissions to actually do that? I don't think that would fly in Onterrible...
There has not been any permission givin
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Old September 28th, 2012, 00:10   #45
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Originally Posted by чума View Post
There has not been any permission givin
So...Let me get this straight.

You have a 29 year old 'Team Leader' who is allowing 8-year old children to run around with replica weaponry, without waivers or parential presence, and shoot each other on Crown Land, of which has not been granted permission for public use?

And he's telling you YOU'RE the bad person?

What kind of Hell do you live in?!
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