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Old September 27th, 2012, 04:14   #16
Janus
 
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I guarantee you that if you make a decent field, you will have members from other larger clubs looking to come play, but if we're hearing that your field caters to 8 year olds (wtf dude) then I would bet you that we will stay on our part of the island.

I have a little street cred when it comes to airsoft on this island, so if you want any help or particular advice or want to know how clubs down here run, then feel free to PM me.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 08:50   #17
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get yourself a waver made, to cover your ass legaly anyone under the age of 18 must have it signed by a parent or guardian, if not they cant play. I have been to games where they alow 16 year olds to play, and they acted mature enough that i didnt even realise they were under 18, but i have also seen it the otherway.

personaly i wouldnt go to a game with anyone under 16
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Old September 27th, 2012, 09:06   #18
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Group leader? What does that mean? That he makes decisions for you on your field? Nonsense.

I don't think I believe in "group leader" as in "of an airsoft community". Group leader "in-game", yes, there are squad leaders, commanding officers. But that's where it should stop.

If your community really calls for a "leader", and from what I read here, the fact that you're expressing concerns about security and all that makes me think you'd make a better "leader" than him.

Seriously, a kid under 14 (I'm being politicaly correct here) should never handle a rifle, pistol of any kind without direct supervision of his parents. And I'm thinking handling that rifle and possibily shooting targets, not people. Let alone dropping them alone to shoot and get shot at. That's my opinion about this, but one that is common sense I think.

Your field, your rules. Just make sure you don't make stupid decisions, but that looks covered by the fact you came here asking for advices. Props tonyou on that
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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:16   #19
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Field owners/operators trumph "group leaders", every time and every day, full stop.

Field owners/operators run the field, set things up, set the rules, and take on the risk of operations. "Group leaders" organize players, nothing more.

If your "Group leader" wants all-ages - then tell him to have at it - on his own field. Not yours.

Set some standards, and your field standards and player base will improve. Making it an all age shit-show, and it will just dilute the player base to the point where the quality players get fed up and go else where, while you are left with a giant pile of aggravation to deal with.

You are there to have fun, as well as organize the field - you aren't having fun if you end up running an airsoft day-camp.

It's time to stage a Coup on your "group leader", and tell him to get stuffed.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 10:40   #20
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It's time to stage a Coup on your "group leader", and tell him to get stuffed.
That would make a nice scenario; do that in one of your game, tell him he needs to defend himself against a coup, if you win, he gets to fall as your community's leader lol
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Old September 27th, 2012, 11:10   #21
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Whomever owns the land upon which you play (I'm assuming your parents?), have to understand the legal ramifications.

Most airsoft fields are strictly eighteen plus; with a few allowing sixteen and seventeen, as long as parents or legal guardians are present. These fields are run by adults and have proper insurance and proper waivers. Otherwise there is no protection from a lawsuit. Most of these fields have also been scoured by the owners for certain hazards and hopefully proper controls have been put in place.

I can't tell you what to do, but here's some advice. I'm assuming your going to play airsoft anyways so you may as well even the playing field for yourself. Don't allow kids to play, skill and attitude are not the important factors at this level. Play with people no less than two years younger than your oldest player. That way you can keep it as a "group of friends playing airsoft in my backyard". This isn't necessarily a legal protection, but keeps the general responsibility fairly even between you. Let your land owners know to look into the legal side of things; as well as every parent of a youth playing Airsoft with you. If any of your members turn eighteen, get them to a proper team, you don't need adults shooting at kids.

Make the following gear mandatory; sealed goggles that are CSA, ANSI, or ballistic rated (no exceptions), a neck or throat protector, a mesh or paintball style mask, and a helmet.

It's also important that you get access to a proper chronograph such as Madbull, or X-cortex. You "must" know the FPS of "every gun" before it gets used. Set up hard decks for FPS, and allow no one to go over. Like 380 FPS for AR and 400 FPS for a sniper as an example. Always chrono with a proper 0.20g BB as heavier BBs lower the velocity, but can increase the joules (or energy). Any gas powered guns need to be chonographed with the BB weight they use as they don't react the same. So you'll need to a proper graph and equation that tell you for instance that a 0.20g BB traveling at 400 FPS has the power of 1.486 joules; so someone running a gas gun using 0.25g BBs has to shoot under 355 FPS to stay under the joule limit. I know it sounds expensive and complicated, but that's why airsoft is run by adults. You have to know though that no one playing on your field is going to take someones head off with a BB.

Hopefully you guys keep it safe and fun out there. Take up Janus on his offer, if you need help.


Team leaders set the basic direction and gameplay of the team. A team however is more than one person, that's why it's called a "team". So everyone should have concerns, opinions, and input. The landowner however has every right to set up boundaries, and safety rules.
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Last edited by Ricochet; September 27th, 2012 at 11:51..
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Old September 27th, 2012, 11:33   #22
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I've played with a lot of underaged players locally, mostly 15-17. I don't have a problem with any of them. They play hard and well with good sportsmanship and good conduct. There is an agreement with field owners that someone is responsible for the minor in some aspect, a ride home, a person who can contact the parents (if not the field owner themselves) and the parents are never too far away.

We had a kid... I think 14 get a tooth shot out. All the adults were calling no duff, sky is falling, etc... kid's only response was "I just want to go respawn" Even his parents weren't all that concerned when they were called. They showed up, they asked him if he wanted to keep playing or not, he was on the fence and looked to their guidance on what he should do. I think they ended up just going to the dentist and that was that. We saw him on the field again a few weeks later.


I have to agree though <12 is probably a bit young to be unsupervised.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 11:58   #23
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My parents do own the land that I run for airsoft, I talked to my parents this morning and they think I'm just getting over paranoid about nothing but from what I'm hearing here they should be worried. At my field I do have it a 15+ but like I said before it really isn't stopping our "group leader" from bringing 10 to 14 year olds. There has only been 1 game at my field so far, I may just pull away from the group and make my own group and have it a 16+ with proper waivers. I off for now but thank you for your information that everyone has provided so far.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:02   #24
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Originally Posted by lurkingknight View Post
I've played with a lot of underaged players locally, mostly 15-17. I don't have a problem with any of them. They play hard and well with good sportsmanship and good conduct. There is an agreement with field owners that someone is responsible for the minor in some aspect, a ride home, a person who can contact the parents (if not the field owner themselves) and the parents are never too far away.

We had a kid... I think 14 get a tooth shot out. All the adults were calling no duff, sky is falling, etc... kid's only response was "I just want to go respawn" Even his parents weren't all that concerned when they were called. They showed up, they asked him if he wanted to keep playing or not, he was on the fence and looked to their guidance on what he should do. I think they ended up just going to the dentist and that was that. We saw him on the field again a few weeks later.


I have to agree though <12 is probably a bit young to be unsupervised.
In this case, it was lucky that 'cool' parents were involved in the aftermath of that injury. It could very easily have gone the other way, as has been seen in other activities and hobbies.

The "Suzie Soccer-mom" factor is the great unknown, and the most troublesome. Precious little Johnny gets injured, and all of a sudden everyone but the absentee parent is to blame for lax supervision that resulted in the injury. Threats get made, and a land-shark lawyer gets involved, and the potential is definitely there for people to start losing their shirts over it, or at least deal with a whole lot of aggravation and inconvenience before it's over.

The civil liability climate in Ontario has changed a bit in the past few years, so that plaintiff's can't simply say that they "didn't read that" when they signed a waiver, but where money and the potential of civil liability is involved, you better have legal representation built into your overhead costs, just in case. Ontario is chock-full of "Suzie Soccer-mom's", unfortunately.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:05   #25
Ricochet
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Originally Posted by lurkingknight View Post
I've played with a lot of underaged players locally, mostly 15-17. I don't have a problem with any of them. They play hard and well with good sportsmanship and good conduct. There is an agreement with field owners that someone is responsible for the minor in some aspect, a ride home, a person who can contact the parents (if not the field owner themselves) and the parents are never too far away.

We had a kid... I think 14 get a tooth shot out. All the adults were calling no duff, sky is falling, etc... kid's only response was "I just want to go respawn" Even his parents weren't all that concerned when they were called. They showed up, they asked him if he wanted to keep playing or not, he was on the fence and looked to their guidance on what he should do. I think they ended up just going to the dentist and that was that. We saw him on the field again a few weeks later.


I have to agree though <12 is probably a bit young to be unsupervised.
I've seen kids that would make great airsoft players, and this argument has been had a thousand times on ASC. However important; maturity, sportsmanship, skill level, and attitude, are not deciding factors wether or not someone should be put in a position where they are firing projectiles at others, and having them shot back. Unless you're of legal age to take responsibilty for yourself, I really hope that the kids and their legal guardians understand all the dangers, hazards, and potential physical threats of the sport, the field they play on, the equipment, and the other players; otherwise, they have put their child needlessly at risk. Most parents I've met a clueless about these things when they sign the waiver. There are a few players I know who's kids play as well. I suppose it's fair to think that they'll understand the dangers. Oddly enough, most experienced players I know would not fathom allowing their kids to play until they are at least sixteen - eighteen. Weird eh?

The important thing is safety; not the legal protection of the airsoft site, or how much of it's cash flow comes from the clueless parents who bring their kids there.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:06   #26
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Originally Posted by чума View Post
My parents do own the land that I run for airsoft, I talked to my parents this morning and they think I'm just getting over paranoid about nothing but from what I'm hearing here they should be worried. At my field I do have it a 15+ but like I said before it really isn't stopping our "group leader" from bringing 10 to 14 year olds. There has only been 1 game at my field so far, I may just pull away from the group and make my own group and have it a 16+ with proper waivers. I off for now but thank you for your information that everyone has provided so far.
In which case, as the land-owners, your parents are financially liable for any incidents arising out of the "sanctioned activity" taking place on the land. They do have a reason to worry, for their potential financial security. It sounds like you have more sense of the potential risk involved, than do your parents.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:07   #27
Ricochet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by чума View Post
My parents do own the land that I run for airsoft, I talked to my parents this morning and they think I'm just getting over paranoid about nothing but from what I'm hearing here they should be worried. At my field I do have it a 15+ but like I said before it really isn't stopping our "group leader" from bringing 10 to 14 year olds. There has only been 1 game at my field so far, I may just pull away from the group and make my own group and have it a 16+ with proper waivers. I off for now but thank you for your information that everyone has provided so far.
Thank you for coming here looking for help. Being open minded and responsible is a step in the right direction.
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ďREALITY IS LIKE A STONE. TO MANY ITíS HARD AND COLD, THEY CANíT HUG IT OR EAT IT, IT ONLY FRUSTERATES THEM AND DOESNíT DO THEM MUCH GOOD. TO OTHERS ITíS STRONG AND DEPENDABLE, YOU CAN BUILD WITH IT, BUILD UPON IT, OR WORK WITH IT, ALSO USE IT TO SMASH PEOPLE IN THE FACE.Ē
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Old September 27th, 2012, 12:27   #28
Brian McIlmoyle
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Originally Posted by чума View Post
My parents do own the land that I run for airsoft, I talked to my parents this morning and they think I'm just getting over paranoid about nothing but from what I'm hearing here they should be worried. At my field I do have it a 15+ but like I said before it really isn't stopping our "group leader" from bringing 10 to 14 year olds. There has only been 1 game at my field so far, I may just pull away from the group and make my own group and have it a 16+ with proper waivers. I off for now but thank you for your information that everyone has provided so far.
They may not think you are over paranoid when they get slapped with a lawsuit ...

when a parent "drops off" their kid on your property.. you and your parents are now responsible for the wellbeing of that minor. You invited them.. you permitted them on the land.. their parents have an expectation that they will be safe and sound while in your custody.

if Jr gets foggy goggles and takes them off in game.. and looses the sight in his eye... his mom is not going to shrug her shoulders and go "oh well.. thems the breaks" She is going to go into full on Momma Bear... and call her lawyer.. and rip you and your parents to little poor pieces..
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Old September 27th, 2012, 13:06   #29
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suzie soccer mom is definitely an issue.

However, those running the show are responsible for explaining the risks. And to most of the parents I've talked to about their kids playing is 'we know the dangers, but he'd rather do this than hockey' or 'better than sitting around in front of the tv or computer playing games.'

People just have to be involved and take a more active role if they're going to allow it. You have to coach/mentor a bit.

I'm sure there's a risk of SSM running that same shit if their kid get's tackled hard in soccer or checked hard in hockey. With the proper safety gear, airsoft probably is safer than hockey.

However, SSM and her lawyer is a definite threat to the OP if the correct precautions aren't taken. You aren't a day care, nor should you expect to be. There are risks involved with playing, just like any other sport, and the parents should acknowledge this and agree to the terms of their kids being allowed to play.
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Old September 27th, 2012, 13:11   #30
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Yeah make tons of waivers that specifically say, you are not liable for anything that happens to them. From a little thing like a blister to them falling off a cliff.(thats of course if you have a cliff on your piece of land)

I'm from hong kong so I've seen tons of little kids playing airsoft regularly. however i absolutely hate playing with them due to the fact I've personally have had extremely bad experiences playing with them.

Was playing a game during the summer in Hong Kong, 13 year old spoilt brat comes with his dad, said kid is 5 ft tall holding a ECHO1 M240B, game starts he team kills half our team when he is prone on the floor spraying wildly. Guy has no trigger control at all...... His dad can't teach his son shit cuz all he does is smoke in the corner talking to other old geezers (no offence to the elderly)

anyway point is, it really depends on the maturity level of the kid. I believe 16 is the best age as I have seen some very mature 16 year olds.
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