Airsoft Canada
AirsoftParts.ca

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > General
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

Clear Barrel Experiments

:

General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 21st, 2012, 10:53   #1
Blackthorne
A Total Bastard
 
Blackthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Consecon, Ontario
Send a message via Skype™ to Blackthorne
Clear Barrel Experiments

As some of you know BB Bastard is doing some R&D this year to try and shed some more light on how the BB behaves in the barrel under different hop up conditions.

We are now finalizing the build for this test rig, and have the Pyrex barrels inbound from the US to be custom machined here.

we will be posting our findings here as well as on Arnies and Airsoft Mechanics.

Here is the link to our project on Indiegogo, http://www.indiegogo.com/airsoftmyth
Any support is appreciated, both words and financial!

We are not engineers and I am asking for the same support I have requested at Airsoft mechanics:
  1. Contructive criticizim is fine, if you are going to bash a grass roots experiment becuase we can't afford to have Mythbusters on contract to figure this out for us, get your troll on somewhere else.
  2. Please keep this thread on topic
  3. If you see us doing something that will ruin the results PLEASE LET US KNOW

We are looking to answer a few basic questions:
  1. does the BB touch the inside of the barrel in transit
  2. How does hop affect the behavour
  3. how do different hop ups affect the behavior in the barrel

Wish us luck!
__________________
VINCITE OMNIMODO

Last edited by Blackthorne; October 26th, 2012 at 13:00..
Blackthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 11:00   #2
R.I.T.Z
Crackers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Barrie
will you be using different brands of hopups/hopup units?
if not will the whole unit be clear?
will you be using different(most common) gearboxes/variations of parts?
__________________
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here."
R.I.T.Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 11:20   #3
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
Will you be testing with AEG, GBBR, and PTW? I think this is great you guys are doing this. BB bastard is number one as far as SWATT is concerned. Please give us detailed results on barrel bore sizes, hop-up types (bucking sizes), FPS, and BB weights you use. If you guys nail down some good results, you could build a custom Bastard labs gun (Systema please!). Lol, just kidding.

Also, how close are you guys to developing a 0.30g and 0.36g bio round?
__________________
“REALITY IS LIKE A STONE. TO MANY IT’S HARD AND COLD, THEY CAN’T HUG IT OR EAT IT, IT ONLY FRUSTERATES THEM AND DOESN’T DO THEM MUCH GOOD. TO OTHERS IT’S STRONG AND DEPENDABLE, YOU CAN BUILD WITH IT, BUILD UPON IT, OR WORK WITH IT, ALSO USE IT TO SMASH PEOPLE IN THE FACE.”
Ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 11:36   #4
Blackthorne
A Total Bastard
 
Blackthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Consecon, Ontario
Send a message via Skype™ to Blackthorne
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.I.T.Z View Post
will you be using different brands of hopups/hopup units?
Yes are going to try and test at least 5, but we have to see how machining the Pryrex goes

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.I.T.Z View Post
if not will the whole unit be clear?
We are using a metal mechbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.I.T.Z View Post
will you be using different(most common) gearboxes/variations of parts?
No. Air is air, we are only looking at barrel and what happens in the barrel. having said that, we do intend to use different springs and nozzles to see what effects they have on the BB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
Will you be testing with AEG, GBBR, and PTW? I think this is great you guys are doing this. BB bastard is number one as far as SWATT is concerned. Please give us detailed results on barrel bore sizes, hop-up types (bucking sizes), FPS, and BB weights you use. If you guys nail down some good results, you could build a custom Bastard labs gun (Systema please!). Lol, just kidding.
We are building a dedicated test rig. As I mentioned above, we are only looking for BB behavior in the barrel, so from the nozzle out we will be trying different things. We will only be using one mechbox and gearset at this time to keep things as predicable as possible.

Also, how close are you guys to developing a 0.30g and 0.36g bio round?[/QUOTE]

Close. we are talking to our new manufacturers currently and getting test run sample in. It takes time to do the tweaking.
__________________
VINCITE OMNIMODO
Blackthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 11:54   #5
jordan7831
will always be Mike Litoris in our hearts
 
jordan7831's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North York - Toronto
How did you plan on studying the behaviour of the BB? Highspeed camera with a strobascope I hope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroboscope
jordan7831 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 12:51   #6
CDN_Stalker
Official ASC Bladesmith
 
CDN_Stalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ont.
Send a message via MSN to CDN_Stalker
Am SO looking forward to this!!!
CDN_Stalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 13:50   #7
Blackthorne
A Total Bastard
 
Blackthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Consecon, Ontario
Send a message via Skype™ to Blackthorne
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan7831 View Post
How did you plan on studying the behaviour of the BB? Highspeed camera with a strobascope I hope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroboscope


Yes indeed. We are going to be starting an Indigogo project to help cover the rental costs of the camera in the next few days. We will be giving funding credit, research credit on the final report and t shirts for donations.

Running between 10,000 and 45,000 frames per second monochrome. We will be using the camera alone to see flight path inside the statically lit barrel and a strobascope.
__________________
VINCITE OMNIMODO
Blackthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:12   #8
Dynamo
Harvester of Noobs' Sorrow
 
Dynamo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: T̆͒ͥ̓̿̅̈́̐͊̿͗̐̾̃͐ͧ&#8
Send a message via MSN to Dynamo
it's going to be interesting to see how you are going to capture the BBs traveling down the barrel. a glass/plastic/transparent cylinder will have ridiculous amount of refraction, that would distort the image of the BB. it would make it really hard to see where the inner walls of the barrel are. i think the best way to see if the BBs contact the barrel inner surface is to use a high-speed camera right in the BBs path. have the barrel/BB back lit so you only see the BBs silhouette. another option would be to have the camera side of the barrel machined into a concave shape to reduce the distortion from refraction.
__________________
Weapons Technician / Gunsmith



Don't look at me, I don't know, lol ¯\(°_o)/¯.
Dynamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:32   #9
Blackthorne
A Total Bastard
 
Blackthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Consecon, Ontario
Send a message via Skype™ to Blackthorne
Pyrex has different light transmission properties than most materials but it is still going to be a challenge. We are working on a few different ideas, including having the barrel suspended in distilled water and having reference lines for the inside of the barrel on a background.
__________________
VINCITE OMNIMODO
Blackthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:33   #10
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary...now with less oil industry than eco-hipster Vancouver
Once you figure out how the BB reacts, are you going to be testing barrel lengths?
Practical field testing has shown me that 380-420mm barrels are just about optimal, anything longer tends to be useless extra barrel, and anything shorter tends to affect accuracy.
__________________
Tamiya connectors suck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swatt13 View Post
i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:35   #11
Blackthorne
A Total Bastard
 
Blackthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Consecon, Ontario
Send a message via Skype™ to Blackthorne
We have 12 barrels coming in ranging from 19 to 21 inches, and 4 different bore sizes.

Unfortunately due to costs we had to pick a happy medium of off the shelf parts, but we are looking to get more detailed and customized equipment from the crowd sourced funding (Indiegogo)
__________________
VINCITE OMNIMODO
Blackthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:41   #12
XZIVR
 
XZIVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Subscribed.
XZIVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:52   #13
ccyg8774
 
ccyg8774's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sackville, NB
Are you going to colour the BB in some way to monitor the spin of the BB in the barrel? Or just study the "touching" between BB and the barrel?
__________________
ccyg8774 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 14:58   #14
m102404
Tys
 
m102404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto
Obviously you're aiming to catch the bounces in flight vs. examining evidence of a bounce post shot.

I'd start with the later.

In a good setup my bet is 2 bounces...first right after the hopup nub...the second close afterwards and then I'm guessing it's stabilized and/or doesn't get a third bounce before it's gone from the barrel.

You could cheat and coat the inner surface of the barrel with a thin flim (say Molybendum)...then shoot a bunch of shots and look for discolouration patterns (it'll turn more silver as it's impacted). You could also capture BB's after the shot and if they had black marks on them then they've hit the barrel somewhere.

You don't even need a clear barrel to see that...just don't get any on your hopup rubber. I'd see coating the entire barrel...then cleaning the first inch of it (or just past the hopup cutout)...then assemble, clamp you gun in a vise and shoot. You can get powdered Moly at shooting places.

I'd stay simple and just setup for one set of tests....one standard barrel length (say 363mm) with 0.20's @ 350fps. Detail and publish the test setup and results and put it out there for peer review. Filter through the reviews and adjust testing from there.

Best of luck with this.
m102404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 15:05   #15
ILLusion
GBB Whisperer
 
ILLusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Toronto
Very interested to see the results of this. It would end the age-long debate on whether tighter barrels actually cause the BB to bounce along the walls more, and if that affects trajectory.

Last edited by ILLusion; September 21st, 2012 at 15:08..
ILLusion is offline   Reply With Quote
ReplyTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > General

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Airsoft Canada
AirsoftParts.ca

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 22:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.