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Old August 16th, 2012, 17:04   #31
zone 69
 
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Originally Posted by horto View Post
wait wait wait... I've got it!

the best m4 is the one that ISN'T BROKEN SITTING ON THE WORKBENCH!
I agree the best AEG is the one that you can depend on game after game with out having to reach for your side arm.

IMO, all AEG's need to be looked over before hand to be confident that they will preform.
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Old August 16th, 2012, 17:53   #32
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Go gas or go home :P
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Old August 16th, 2012, 17:55   #33
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Go gas or go home :P
Madbull receiver, front end and stock with polarstar engine. Add some magpul furniture and done!
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Old August 16th, 2012, 17:57   #34
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Originally Posted by coach View Post
Madbull receiver, front end and stock with polarstar engine. Add some magpul furniture and done!
Much as I agree with this, a P* install can be somewhat daunting as a first gun.

Is the OP a troll or something? Best in terms of what? Everything?
If money really is no object, the best M4 would probably be something from FCC.
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Old August 16th, 2012, 18:54   #35
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For this kind of question (too open, no budget) and after two pages of suggestions, talking about and what not, with no reply from OP...

I would be tempted to say just go buy a tank or call it a day :P

No seriously, this is pointless as these kind of discussions are all happening in more specific, appropriate threads already...

Just my two cents
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Real life comparison,

GBBR- bang bang -- Giggle

AEG-- merrrzip merrzip -- meh
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Old August 16th, 2012, 19:16   #36
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G&P AEG

Stay away from gas, expensive mag, leak, unreliable and fps variation can hurt someone (we had 50-75 fps variation in one day with temperature variation)
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Old August 17th, 2012, 13:44   #37
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Does the Systema PTW will acheive much better performance and durability compared of a Good and fully upgraded AEG* (VFC, CA or G&P) ?

And if yes by how much ?

*When I say fully upgraded I mean: systema CMB M120 complete gearbox set with motor, Mosfet, Prowin Hop-up, Prommy inner barrel and Prommy soft bucking.

Do you have test results on accuracy and range compared to a good upgraded AEG ?

comparison of maintenance, repair and parts availlability (not the price but difficulty level and time).
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Old August 17th, 2012, 14:22   #38
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Originally Posted by Long_Bong View Post
G&P AEG

Stay away from gas, expensive mag, leak, unreliable and fps variation can hurt someone (we had 50-75 fps variation in one day with temperature variation)
I would stay away from gas if you don't like doing proper maintenance and realism. I do myself own a WE M4 GBBR and haven't came across major gun issues since.

Expensive Mags; Yeah I agree, but for a guy like me who plays always MilSim, I barely go through all my mags in a day (I have 4). If you're the type that puts the pedal to the metal and go through a whole 4000 BB bag, then no, stay away from GBBRs.

Leaks; The 2nd generation of WE mags don't seems to leak. We shall see with time. And those leaks are easy to fix.

Unreliable; Maybe the KJW system, but as for WE myself and my teammates can't say that it's unreliable. Like I said, proper maintenance and cleaning of the gun will greatly improve the gun's reliability and durability.

FPS variation; Yes, I agree at 100% with this, either propane of CO2.

And the famous NPAS; Yes it's a PITA ajusting it, but is it worth it in the end ? Absolutely. The NPAS needs ajustement at every game, and not once a year. This again can scare off newbies that want a pay & play type of gun.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 14:31   #39
m102404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
Does the Systema PTW will acheive much better performance and durability compared of a Good and fully upgraded AEG (VFC, CA or G&P) ?

And if yes by how much ?

Do you have test results on accuraccy and range compared to a good AEG ?
What "Much", "Better" and "Good" means will vary from person to person...so that's a tough one to answer.

A good way to look at it sometimes is to break things down into the various facets...and compare pros/cons:

Accuracy
Most stock PTW's have so-so accuracy. However, with the hopup mods they can be superbly accurate. And by superb I mean super consistent (this comes from both the shot to shot FPS consistency and application of the hopup backspin) at extended range. Is it a magic gun that'll keep all the shots in a thumbnail size at 1000000ft? No, obviously. But it's fantastic. IMO, the PTW hopup unit design is inherently better at applying consistent backspin to each BB. At varying FPS, with varying weights.

Can an AEG be setup to shoot accurately....absolutely. Quality barrel, good rubber, good nub, good combo of nozzle/hopup unit/etc... From that...you'll see that you're dealing with a lot of parts..and thus a lot of variables. If you've worked on a lot of guns, you'll know that it can be a real PITA to get them setup right...and a bigger PITA if you've got to go back in to make alterations.

Range
There's nothing special from the motor/gears/inner barrel/piston/etc...that makes a PTW shoot long...it's all in the hopup application. As said...the PTW design inherently applies more backspin to each BB...allowing heavy BBs to travel "until you can't see it anymore".

Can you get an AEG to shoot just as far...yes. Much like accuracy...it's all in the setup and fine tuning. IMO...neither are done as simply, and maintained consistent, with an AEG as they are with a PTW.

Shot Feel
The motor and gearing in a PTW is such that it is very quick from trigger press to piston release.

Can you have the same trigger response from an AEG...very, very close. With fast/strong AEG motors, gear sets, and a battery to match...you can get there just about. With those setups when something goes wrong, it'll go badly wrong. IMO, that's inherent in the design and parts of AEG mechboxes...something that is much improved with the PTW mech.

You're into MOSFETs and large batteries to do that with an AEG...and you're into that with PTW's. I'd probably give the nod to the modded AEG on this one...solely because of the hit/miss of the PTW electronics/motor. Hit and miss because if you sort out a solid set of electronics and motor for a PTW...it'll likely keep going for a long, long time.

Reliability
Sort of already touched on that in the above. The biggest things with the PTW's are the electronics and motor. Broken mechs and cylinders happen...but much much less often. Sort out the electronics and motor on a PTW...and you're likely cruising for a long time.

Reliability can be broken down into the parts that make it work:
- electronics...nod goes to the AEG MOSFETs
- mech...nod goes overwhelmingly to the PTW
- compression system parts...nod goes overwhelmingly to the PTW
- hopup unit...even draw...neight breaks unless you adjust it badly
- motor...nod goes to AEG motors

Can things be evened out either way...sure. But consider the what has to go in to things to make a AEG mechbox as reliable as a PTW mech. Or to make all the parts in a compression system as reliable. IMO..."fixing" any issues with the PTW is vastly simpler, but potentially more expensive (considering good parts, time, labour costs of doing up an AEG), than an AEG.

Cost
This is what gets people. If the electronics of a PTW were to cost $100-150 in total...the debate would be dead and everybody would have them. If the PTW motors weren't $200+ instead of $60-100...same thing.

You can't phase in or spread out the costs of a PTW like you can with upgrading an AEG. It's all or nothing. There's only a couple of things that are likely to go wrong with a PTW...but they cost $$$ each.

Take someone's nicely tuned up AEG (this is skewed because AEGs are cheap now). Add in the costs of upgraded parts...hours of work (this one is hard since a lot of people consider their time free)...gundoc fees...downtime (this one often gets forgotten).

It's cheaper to do up an AEG. But it's more work and more fiddly.

So that's a lot of writting...what's the short story?
PTW is better, simpler...but more costly.

Last edited by m102404; August 17th, 2012 at 14:36..
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Old August 17th, 2012, 14:39   #40
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I'll tell you one more thing about PTWs. There are always a couple peaches for sale in the classifieds here just waiting to be picked.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 15:07   #41
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Originally Posted by Danke View Post
I'll tell you one more thing about PTWs. There are always a couple peaches for sale in the classifieds here just waiting to be picked.
Why many people sell them if they are that good ?

As for the hop-up on the PTW they slightly changed the design on the 2012 model and they came up with a taper inner barrel ??!
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Old August 17th, 2012, 15:51   #42
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Some people quit, some people get bored and want to try gas guns or sniping.

Why does anyone sell anything?
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Old August 17th, 2012, 16:08   #43
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You can't go wrong with a G&P for an AEG or GBBR, but if your on budget and want a GBBR go with the WE or King Arms M4 GBBRs. Although the "best" GBBR for the money that you can get is the KWA LM4, just change the mags with a G&P PMAG and your set. All in all, there is no real answer because it all depends on how you play, what you prefer and what you can afford. Above are just my suggestions.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 17:18   #44
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@m102404:

Thanks for the answer,

But it still not convince me of buying a 2000$ PTW over a 1000$ AEG. Money is not an issue for me but I wouldn't spend twice the price on something that is just slightly better. If I buy a PTW it's because I'm very impressed and the performance are far better than a AEG by a Good margin.

I saw too many good performer AEG and saw very few PTW in games, but I will have to fire the 2012 version to see if it worth the investment. I might visit double tap soon...
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Old August 17th, 2012, 17:42   #45
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If the gun is stock, yeah probably PTW. But after dumping a couple hundreds of dollars into upgrades any M4 will really do. I would put my King Arms M4 against a PTW anyday, and the only thing stock in my gun is the hopup.
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