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Old August 15th, 2012, 06:42   #31
Rusty Lugnuts
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I wonder if the high FPS and resulting pain might be driving some potential players away. Newbie players typically are short on gear,and just accept things as the way it's done
& given machismo and all- So you wouldn't even hear complaints about it.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 08:42   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Lugnuts View Post
I wonder if the high FPS and resulting pain might be driving some potential players away. Newbie players typically are short on gear,and just accept things as the way it's done
& given machismo and all- So you wouldn't even hear complaints about it.
It worked for us earlier (1992-95) with the HK style terminator games 430-480fps indoors to the point where a seperate group of newcomers establish stock Marui gun fps only (280fps)
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Old August 15th, 2012, 15:07   #33
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The field in question is 100ft by 200ft with inflatables and constructed "buildings" throughout. If you encounter a situation where players are on either side of these buildings and turn out face to face, we're talking less than 5 feet. It's going to be near impossible to get even a 30ft MED unless you're standing in the open and shooting down the length of the field. In the case you're behind one of these buildings for cover, with a larger MED, and someone steps out, you're going to pelt them in the face.

I got shot by my own boyfriend at this field from less than 3 ft because I walked out from behind something, calling my hit, hands up and he just had no vision of me. Hit me across the knuckles, causing my hand to swell to the point that I couldn't pull the trigger anymore. This was at a 350 hard limit, and he wasn't aiming at me, he was aiming down field. This is only one example of the many things that could happen. We already had someone chip a tooth at the field when 350 was a limit.

I don't understand the need for change, springs are 10$. And there are more than four players in the Windsor Area who could change the spring, without damage to the gun.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 22:52   #34
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Originally Posted by fantastix View Post
About 70% of our current players are under 18 (almost all of the new players from this year are). We have about 6-10 regulars that have been playing for multiple years. The demographic in Windsor is quite different then most of our away games, and the play style reflects that. Very light/easygoing skrims.

Guns/players are rated on a case by case basis. There would be no way I would let a 14 year old on with a gun shooting 420. The whole 400+ thing is to satisfy an entirely different team of older players who would prefer to go 400 full auto at point blank. The groups generally don't play together, and when they do MEDs and other limits are put in to ensure everyone's safety.

It's a local shift thats happening where the weekend warriors who would ordinarily be paintballing are now taking up airsoft instead. It's also an attempt to try and draw some of the rogue groups in so they can play in a legal area (and we can charge them to play). There is a lot of backyard airsoft in Windsor we hear about, because like I said in an earlier post, the field is the only field that allows airsoft within an hour and a half drive.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that we are not a babysitting service. Parents of underage players are required to stick around after signing them in for the first couple games their children play in.
Fantastix... stop raising the FPS because you dont want to replace a $10 spring. buy a few extra and have em on hand, you know full well 400+ fps indoors is pushing it... now your at 430? cmon man relax and play the game

ive got pellet guns that shoot under 450 can i bring them? or my .22(cb shorts) is only 600 where does it stop?

set a limit and stick to it 350 fps indoor and 400 fps outdoor
thats plenty fast enough
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Old August 28th, 2012, 02:56   #35
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Also, seriously what is the point of 400fps at point blank range? Are you trying to get people hurt? I've seen bb's have to get dug out of skin at less than 350fps.

400fps in close quarters is just re-goddamn-diculous. You ought to know better.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 16:55   #36
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I've played and ref'd enough indoor CQB games to know that wearing anything less than full-skin coverage and full face protection is stupid. Partially because you just end up hurting yourself by having your arms shredded, and partially because you can't trust anyone to play safely, especially when they're new.
New or inexperienced players will, on average, nearly exclusively use full-auto and aim for 'headshots' because 'headshots are cool'. Some people of all relative skill levels also get scared and/ or frustrated and tend to retaliate in an uncontrolled over-aggressive manner when they're butthurt by losing.

Requiring full face protection and strongly encouraging long sleeves and padded gloves topped off with a 350fps limit isn't about accounting for what safe, positive players can handle, it's about limiting the amount of damage a moron or overwhelmed newbie can do.

I've played high-limit CQB with no cage against guys whome I've trusted and I was just fine. I would not, however, walk into an arena with people I didn't know and had not played with before without suiting right up and knowing all guns had passed a crono.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 18:44   #37
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
Minors? running that hot .. in close quarters... as a field owner and game host, that is in one word.. Negligent. It would never ever happen at my facility, I'm not keen on seeing my livelihood wiped out by some soccer mom suing me because little timmy got his face shot up.
Waivers are not worth the paper they are written on.. I know a personal injury Lawyer.. who said "I've never seen a waiver that I could not get around in court"
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Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I'm reasonably certain that minors in Canada lack the capacity to even sign a legally binding contract, and anything they do sign is voidable by the minor at any time, so the hypothetical soccer mom wouldn't even need a lawyer to sue the shit out of an airsoft field where a minor was injured.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 19:04   #38
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If the field FPS limit is too high for you, then don't go play there. Simple as that. You don't have to bash the host and the field. This is looking like another ASC Flamefest

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Old August 28th, 2012, 19:05   #39
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I want a 'like' button for that comment
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old August 28th, 2012, 19:25   #40
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Wow. How dare we have opinions based on experience on the subject.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 20:43   #41
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when we went to pine it was 400 indoors with semmi auto as the rule caught over your out. i have played a fair bit indoors and it was always stressed 10 ft mercy head shots were not favored but if the only target you got was a pop up head then . i have and many of my team members been shot with hot guns , no mater what the field fps is someone will try to slip it in. i after playing the few years every weekend even outdoors all winter cant tell 350 fps and 400 fps apart, they all hurt real bad in close. we have scars, bruises, damaged teeth lumps and dings its part of a sport being new " i was there" doesn't mean bubble wrap me, veteran players. if a rule is set fallow it this game is about the honor system. if you don't like the way a game is played at a location for any reason you can say "hey at this field we do it this way would you mind?" if the answer is no you don't got to play there. play with respect for the other shooters if you don't want to be hit 2 feet away with a 450fps don't do it. I"m sure others will be ready to comment about my lack of whatever. its about going out and having fun , shoot like you want to be shot. resect your pears and eat cake.
thanks
didn't mean to go off
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Old August 28th, 2012, 23:07   #42
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I'll never go for a head shot if i don't have to, but sometimes it's all you got.
I feel bad about it indoors or out, but you know it's possible to get shot in the face or other sensitive areas in airsoft, whether on purpose or by accident.
PPE is your own responsibility, not the person shooting you. If you don't want to get shot in the face with 400fps, wear full face protection.

We just had a similar problem with raising our fps limit to 420fps here in Mb. Some people are worried about an extra 20fps, and that everyone will now have 400fps guns. Well everyone already had 380-400fps guns, 20fps isn't going to do much more damage at our typical engagement range of 60-200 feet. And if you weren't worried about your face at 400fps, why would you suddenly be worried at 420fps?
It's not like everyone is going to buy new springs just to up 20fps lol

And to add insult to injury, there are only 4 times I can recall of someone EVER complaining about a hot gun on the field and having them chrono their gun. All 4 times the gun was under 350fps. Yet I know of a dozen times when someone had a 'hot' gun (by 10-15fps) on the field, and nobody ever complained about it.
Point being, if you get shot in the thigh, doesn't matter if it's 350 or 450fps, still gonna hurt like hell from 20 feet.
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old August 28th, 2012, 23:34   #43
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The issue is the energy impact not the FPS; and the fact that the are parents who are dropping kids off, signing waivers, who dont know jack about this, onlu adds more complication.


FPS Joule
350 1.13
375 1.30
400 1.48
425 1.67


350 FPS to 400 FPS has a 30% increase of impact force (energy) with no loss of power as most shots are fired at close range. No wind. No leaves, grass etc. This is compact close quarters battle.

425 FPS is a 47% increase in energy from 350.

I am failry certain, the shot in the leg will feel different from a 350 gun vs 400-425
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Old August 28th, 2012, 23:51   #44
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Agreed Trev.

Comes down to what you're willing to take really. I don't use mesh, never have, and being shot in the face has never really bothered me. I've been smoked with .28's at less than 15ft. without skin breaking and I just keep my mouth closed when in play (force of habit from fighting).

Hell, in all my years doing airsoft I've only used full seals a few times. Just purchased some new ones because more fields are getting really strict with that rule, but since I was 14 I've never caught one to the eye while wearing ballistics, and I seem to get hit in the head very often.

Personally I would rather take those shots than getting hit in the ear lobe from 30-100ft.

My point in all this being: People are sensitive to different things in different areas. As ThunderCactus put it; personal protective equipment is each player's responsibility. If you don't want to bleed from or be picking styrene from your face after a CQB match or even large field milsim, wear mesh or another mask. If you have a tattoo on your forearm you're worried about ruining, wear long sleeves. It's common sense to protect yourself from things you want protection from. Unfortunately in my young age I have realized that common sense just isn't all that common.

However, I digress..
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Old August 28th, 2012, 23:52   #45
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So misinformation about the field doesn't spread anymore, I'd like to reiterate the actual field limits.

-Field is semi-auto only. Max bb weight is .25, but use of .2 ammo is recommended.
-<380fps No MED
-MED increases by 15' for every 10fps beyond 380. Hard cap of 430.
Guns over 400 are only to be used in special scenario games to avoid abuse of MED.
-Players under 18 may not shoot over 380.
-Full face protection required for players under 18.
-Headshots are strongly discouraged and players are required to lower weapons while turning corners.

In the last 3 games, we have only had 2-3 people shooting over 380. All major issues were concerning hit calling and other usual bullshit.
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