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Old July 31st, 2012, 12:57   #46
m102404
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Originally Posted by Hunter424 View Post
KK you are not getting what im saying...
The door is an example!!!
I'm not saying BLOW every door.
Im saying that the restriction's to movement is probably the BIGGEST
REAL LIFE VS MILSIM ISSUE!!!

TRUST ME IM QUITE AWARE ONE CAN"T SIMPLE GO AROUND WITH UNLIMITED C4 Charges BLOWING DOORS!!!


But I do agree with Restrictions to Weapons.
But I disagree with Comm's, CoC (chain of command) and attitudes!!
DO to the fact I feel most "MilSim" events I have participated in have those three elements in them!! Maby not Military standards but not to far off!!!
I'm trying...but I'm not quite getting what you're saying either.

I do get that real life tactics would be too violent/dangerous to have at an airsoft milsim (hence the 'sim' part). And I get that restriction of movement is a issue with airsoft....and that it's magnified by the practicalities of airsoft (i.e. they don't shoot through walls/doors...range is limited...etc...)

You lost me a bit with...
"But I disagree with Comm's, CoC (chain of command) and attitudes!!
DO to the fact I feel most "MilSim" events I have participated in have those three elements in them!! Maby not Military standards but not to far off!!!"

Do you mean that because of some of the "rules" about movement (i.e. not going through windows, breaching roofs, using this door vs. that door, etc...) the game is spoiled/constrained?

I can see that. At one venue we had some very....ummmm, spirited....players come up with some very innovative ways of problem solving. Barricading doors, setting up barricades, using/moving hard cover, breaching holes in roofs to access/bypass things, scaling the side/exterior of a building.
- Effective...sure, worked very well.
- Destructive...yes, and the field owner had to make the call on it (ended up...put down $$$$ deposits to cover damages/repairs)
- Dangerous...yes, beyond the tolerance of the host and field owner

In the end, was it allowed to continue? No. In some games the host would impose those "restriction of movements" (if I get you right)....in other instances the field owner made it prohibitively expensive.

So...what are you left with? Simply to work within those conventions. Adapt to what's permissible and work within those constraints. 90% of the time those constraints should be there for either monetary/safety reasons, so there's no ifs ands or buts...the remainder may be there to suit the game and if the host determins it to be so, there's no ifs ands or buts.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 13:07   #47
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To foxhound...
I agree with the respawn comment!

I'm Not saying we should blow everything up or smash windows or whatever!!!
What I am saying is In the real deal we would seak ways to use the terrain at our Disposal To OUR ADVANTAGE in ways we can not in airsoft....

there will always be rooms out of bounds or buildings your not aloud in our a road one can not use do to RULES made by the game staff or by the owner!!!

Which limit the amount of movement and tactics one team can use....
I'm not saying there is a way around this... im just stating MilSim can and will only be The way it has been ran 9/10 wasy in the past, in most ways do to the RESTRICTIONS on WEAPONS and the RESTRICTIONS on MOVEMENT. Plus the DAMAGING of PROPERTY in a slight form, And the safety of everyone!!
I'm just stating the way it has been played in canada in the past is probable the way it will reamain do to these facts

I dont know how i can say it any better!!

M102404 You basically get what im trying to say!!

Last edited by Hunter424; July 31st, 2012 at 13:19..
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Old July 31st, 2012, 13:09   #48
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well saying milsim is a skirmish isn't the right one in this thread lol
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Old July 31st, 2012, 13:14   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter424 View Post
To foxhound...
I agree with the respawn comment!

I'm Not saying we should blow everything up or smash windows or whatever!!!
What I am saying is In the real deal we would seak ways to use the terrain at our Disposal To OUR ADVANTAGE in ways we can not in airsoft....

there will always be rooms out of bounds or buildings your not aloud in our a road one can not use do to RULES made by the game staff or by the owner!!!

Which limit the amount of movement and tactics one team can use....
I'm not saying there is a way around this... im just stating MilSim can and will only be a SKIRMISH in most ways do to the RESTRICTIONS on WEAPONS and the RESTRICTIONS on MOVEMENT. Plus the DAMAGING of PROPERTY in a slight form!!!

I dont know how i can say it any better!!

M102404 You basically get what im trying to say!!
I guess you're too hardcore for airsoft "Army Infantry Corporal"

I strongly suggest you check out some of the more serious milsim games.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 13:18   #50
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I guess you're too hardcore for airsoft "Army Infantry Corporal"

I strongly suggest you check out some of the more serious milsim games.

I love this forum... Only MATURE and honourable people HERE!!

Hey foxhound Before you start accusing people OF BEING TO HARD FOR AIRSOFT One should probably do there research!!!

Anyways as always this post is turning into a pissing match so I'm out
But thanks M102404 for trying to understand what im saying

Last edited by Hunter424; July 31st, 2012 at 13:26..
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Old July 31st, 2012, 13:25   #51
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thanks mmmken for starting this post as I agree this does need to get sorted out.
And I would like to thank those who are trying to populate this post with useful info, Not
beat there chest! IMO I feel IN the SPORT of AIRSOFT two factors are Key:

Duration of the event
and space.

To make it a milsim...

yes
CoC, and Comms, Weapons and attitudes uniforms are all issues but from my experience in this sport
If you go to milsim events you have these areas covered!

I feel the big boundrys are time and space!! which allow players of this sport to use advanced tactic's and a higher imagination to capture obj!!

Last edited by Hunter424; July 31st, 2012 at 13:33..
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Old July 31st, 2012, 14:14   #52
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Originally Posted by FoxhoundNB View Post
The biggest obstacle to 'milsim' is that people know they can respawn after they die. Take that away and I suspect that the events would be a lot more deliberate and thought out and more milsim-ish.
Eastwind has a 2 hour respawn for full time players! And that starts after you get back to your base!
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Old July 31st, 2012, 14:49   #53
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But if the game is only 24 hours, and reswapn time is 2hours, there will be A LOT of cheating..

I fully agree with Hunter, space and duration are the biggest issues for milsims. But both of them are due to the lack of players and dedication.
Last year I've attended 3 big 24 hours games and I would guesstimate over 50% of players drop out at night. If we cannot sustain 24hr game, there is no point of hosting 48hr or more in a huge field.. Canadian players are not ready for this yet.. and I dont know if they will even be...
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Old July 31st, 2012, 15:09   #54
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Originally Posted by FoxhoundNB View Post
No I totally get what you're saying, So you're saying that Communications, having a working chain of command (if numbers necessitate) and the right attitude have nothing to do with the success of a milsim event?

Freedom of movement is such a minor part of the game; and guess what; that problem exists in real life too. The biggest obstacle to 'milsim' is that people know they can respawn after they die. Take that away and I suspect that the events would be a lot more deliberate and thought out and more milsim-ish. Being able to climb on roofs won't help anything, except give you 5 minutes of novelty cool before you never do it again.
Thats an excellent point, i really wonder how much a game would change if your only given one life (or maybe one respawn per hour) oh for sure people would follow the chain of command. Wow, thats a huge point. I like it
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Old July 31st, 2012, 15:11   #55
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I agree with above. I see guys at our field drop after 2 hours. Serious. And the games arent even that intense except for moments like this video. (this is when there is zero cover)


AprilAirsoft.avi - YouTube


I could not imagine 24 hours.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 15:43   #56
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But if the game is only 24 hours, and reswapn time is 2hours, there will be A LOT of cheating..

The 2 hours is only for those that are 24 hours a day for 9 straight days players. Day players only have a 30 min respawn again after getting to their base.

There will always be cheaters, even if you have instant respawns!
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Old July 31st, 2012, 16:12   #57
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Besides hit calling, there will be people who won't wait the full time. You need a ref at the respawn timing people..
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Old July 31st, 2012, 16:16   #58
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True, even then there will be those that don't go back to respawn but will just get out of sight and come back in. Seen it happen more than once!
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Old July 31st, 2012, 16:21   #59
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Unfortunately this is a totally honour driven activity; we can't start shooting down rules because you can cheat... That's like saying you can't have a gearbox with a quick change spring because someone will inevitably change their spring after the chrono... Technically possible, but you have to have some faith in your players, and if someone's spotted taking advantage of the rules, you come down on them consistently.

Same thing with medic rules; it's exceedingly easy to remove any markers that you've been medic'd, giving yourself a free life, but we rely on the players to be honest about it, and when their not, to have the people in their immediate vicinity to call them out on it.

That line of thought is detrimental and a slippery slope. What else are we not going to do because it's possible to abuse?
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Old July 31st, 2012, 16:56   #60
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Sure, but the more restrictions and rules you put on the players, the more temptation they will have to cheat.
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