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Old July 16th, 2012, 18:12   #76
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Originally Posted by Armedpacifist View Post
I imagine a lot of the people posting right now, started off airsofting as minors, I know I did.
I waited until i was 18
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Old July 16th, 2012, 18:26   #77
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I'm lucky I guess. I didn't stumble onto Airsoft until I almost 20. Never had to wear that minor-sized flame suit.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 18:37   #78
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well i've played with minors before andthey were better then some of the reg.player that are over 18.they listen and did what had to be done and didn't cry about shit.cause every game there are older guys crying about hits and shit.but hey paintball was like this when it first came out,so things will change.we need change for the future of airsoft.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 18:46   #79
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I think you'll find a few players in here who were 18+ before airsoft was invented.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 18:52   #80
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everyone talks about the future of airsoft.. as if it has no past

People have been playing airsoft here for 20 years.. and there has always been the same issues .. and concerns.

the bottom line is most players don't want to play with kids..

I don't care if kids play.. with proper supervision at approved fields they can have all the fun they like .. and when they are a bit more seasoned they can move on to the over 18 games.

There are a host of good reasons why minors should not be playing with Adults on the same level, not the least of which is legal liability, exposure to adult social situations that they should not be ( smoking, drinking, rampant profanity ( yeah yeah kids do all that anyway.. but I don't need to contribute to their delinquency )

I've permitted some 16 year olds to participate in some of my games.. after I met their parents and had a open and frank conversation with them regarding what they are going to be exposed to.

Those few guys who got in early.. turned out to be solid mature players.. and they have since all turned 18, and carried on playing..

So I am not against Minors playing airsoft. It's great fun and can teach solid teamwork and problem solving skills that translate well to RL.

It's just my preference not to cater to this demographic, There certainly is money in it .. a kids never have any issue spending their parents money, it's just not what I'm interested in doing.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 20:00   #81
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Ok here is my 2 sense and I will prepare for a barrage of PM.s

All depends on the venue. I started putting on private games (Hill 437) out of the very bullshit that many read about here. And with the exception of “age” I can insert many of these very same faults at many games I have been to.
I recall going to a game once and seeing a few guys get baked in the parking lot dressed in spikes and long jackets and strolling back on the field. All well over 18. That was actually the turning point for me. I left the field right away, driving home getting ready to write the kijiji add to dump all my gear.

I am 40 years old and have far better things to do than spend 5 minutes of my day away from my wife and kids with that.

I actually recall feeling like a total dumb ass getting into airsoft, especially when ALL my friends were busy gearing up with THOUSDAND in paintball shit. I was definately the odd man out.

That said, I decided to get back on the horse, try it a bit longer and found that the best games are the ones that are best managed and are not driven by numbers but rather a goal of giving someone a great fair run for their money. Like minded, tight group, with the same goals.

So on the topic of the kids, what I do is from time to time let a younger kid in who has been verified in some way and usually with the parent. I can tell you there has NEVER been even a peep of a problem. The numbers are so low (1-2/30-40 guys) and the person is so in tune to what is expected from the time he gets out of the car there is zero issue.

This is not even close to an event where kids are allowed, but the odd time it is allowed. Just like allowing a newb. No difference. I let them on in a pack of 2-3 MAX. Again, those people come straight to me either through pm or on the field asking for help, or direction. If I am too tied up, I have a few guys who I trust to help em out. Soon enough, we have a guy (or girl) who comes back geared up head to toe.

I can name 10 newbs RIGHT NOW who have started at Hill 437 (in March) that are armed to the teeth and would be mistaken for a "VET" any day of the week.

I think where the issues arise, is when it is a wide open walk on game and billy texts 8 of his friends in gym class.

As for buying the gun. You cant and wont control it. End of discussion. Kids get there hands on crack cocaine, booze, and anything they put there mind to. The fact they are showing up with their parent is a bit of a good sign vs the alternative. You cant and dont know the intent of the parent. Perhaps its to get his ass of the couche and stop playing video games all day? Take an interest in something? Get him interested in something better than hanging out at the mall? You dont know, but I can tell you I have friends with sons crossing the age and they are just getting into airsoft now, to have something to do with their sons once the 15-18 year old shitty period starts and dads are "boring".

So here is an old video of one of the games.... spot the kid? Does this seem like people are not having an awesome time?

AprilAirsoft.avi - YouTube



(Oh, and full circle the guys who I mentioned with the thousands in paintball gear have the shit listed on Kijiji now and many will be playing this Sat. Head first into Airsoft they are 5 months in)
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Old July 16th, 2012, 22:33   #82
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I have to agree with Brian for the most part. Kids (17-) are not the issue here. It's the rest of us. ASC being a prime example. We as a community have gotten together with friends, teams, groups, retailers, and event planners and have decided to not promote the sport to the underage crowd. We are here for mentoring purposes, and to provide guidance and qualified information until they are of age, and can be age verified.

- I do not believe the 18+ crowd should share a field with the under 18 crowd. (For the same reasons stated above)

- I don't believe this community should sponsor retailers that sell Airsoft "guns" to people who cannot show they are age of majority or better "with" valid government issued photo I.D.

- I believe that the forums section should have a "very" limited access area to the non age verified. By way of that the newbie section should be available to Age verified people only (who are starting into the sport, but are of age). And that the non age verified have access to; the "get my ass age verified section", and the "I'm under 18 section". We can then more closely monitor the information being passed to "expressly minors". This section can have a very strict sticky rules to read section. So we won't get as many posts in the newbie section like "where can I buy guns". If your posting in there, you either under 18, or you don't bother to read rules. Simple!

I've met a kid who was no older than maybe ten on an Airsoft field. He was polite, he listened, and played fairly. But that's clearly not the point. My team made it known that we won't be returning there if minors are present, because we support the ASC standard. A persons age doesn't always inspire maturity. But it does come with experience, accountability, and legal responsibility passed the age of 18. Just because there are adults whom are jerks on the Airsoft field, does not give way to someone who is not legally mature.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 13:53   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armedpacifist View Post
I imagine a lot of the people posting right now, started off airsofting as minors, I know I did.
True but some of us who have been in airsoft before anyone here know what airsoft is are bound by rules and regulation much like the underagers now and we abide by them until we are old enough.

I still remember when I was not allowed to participate in a game in HK because I was 1yr younger than the minimum age requirement, I did'nt cry and bitched that I wasn't allowed to play. minors playing to me is acceptable as long as they UNDERSTAND the consequences of their action if they were to be caught doing anything illegal with their airsoft. Airsoft here in Canada is quite different from where I come from with all the bad press of real firearm issue we don't need a bad press with replica firearms and minors and this is teh sticking point in every older vet here have with minors mind you that we also do from time to time have issues with the 18+crowd too. I guess maturity and commonsense is the key in this discussion unfortunately it's far and few among the young players now adays.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 15:01   #84
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As an oldster who developed an interest in airsoft back in its infancy (1980) while visiting HK, I would have KILLED to have the options and opportunities currently available to the kids. But after returning to Canada with my first set of BS guns (no idea what the "BS" stood for, that that's what they called them in HK back then), trying to find ANYONE to play against was impossible. The sport was practically unknown outside of the Pacific Rim. I recall playing a few games against 3-4 others from Toronto, but eventually put the guns away for lack of players and replacement parts.

For those kids arguing (whining) against the generally accepted 18+ limit to play, I will point out that I pretty much had to wait 15 years until the sport established roots here, and another 10 as it developed its sense of maturity.

Waiting 1-3 (or whatever) years to become AV'ed should NOT be a burden by comparison.

If you're 17- and want to act like an entitled little prig, I will be the first to smack you upside the head, and kick your skinny ass to the curb.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 16:28   #85
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Yikes, lol!

The bottom line here I think, all liability and safety aside; is that it's better for the sport. Because of the vigilance of our community we all made it through some dark times. I don't have a problem with a supervised minor shooting one at targets in a proper area. But a minor does not have the legal right to agree to have someone shoot projectiles at them, and no one has the right to give others permission to put someone else at risk. We must all be be able to 100% be personally responsible. Or we will damage this sport.

Perhaps this is a bit of a hardcore view, but due diligence, safety, liability, and the sports future "must always" supersede peoples feelings. My friends eight year old wants badly to play. He'll have to wait ten years!! Think of it like getting your drivers license. Everyone has to/should wait.
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ďREALITY IS LIKE A STONE. TO MANY ITíS HARD AND COLD, THEY CANíT HUG IT OR EAT IT, IT ONLY FRUSTERATES THEM AND DOESNíT DO THEM MUCH GOOD. TO OTHERS ITíS STRONG AND DEPENDABLE, YOU CAN BUILD WITH IT, BUILD UPON IT, OR WORK WITH IT, ALSO USE IT TO SMASH PEOPLE IN THE FACE.Ē
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Old July 17th, 2012, 16:47   #86
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I know it's a hot topic, and I respect the views presented here.

I help run Cuddy's Commandos, an all-age club in Winnipeg. We've been playing for 4 years now, and to my knowledge, are the only large all-age club around. We're also (again, to my knowledge) one of the larger clubs in Canada, with over 200 members, and turnouts in excess of 70 guys every two weeks.

Our members range in age from 12 to 20, for the most part, with another dozen or two who are anywhere from 20 to 50.

We play on private properties, far from anyone who might care about 'kids' with guns, and take safety and adherence to our rules very seriously. Every week, I get to do a speech about safety, and we come down hard on violations. Don't want to call a hit? No problem - sit for the remainder of the day and think about it. First offense, take the rest of the day off.......second offense, find somewhere else to play. (obviously within reason).

We like to think we offer a safe place for kids to play, as well as to learn a little about discipline and tactics. We stress to parents that they simply must NEVER allow their kids to play with airsoft guns inside the city - not even in their back yard. Anyone we hear about who does so faces suspensions from games, and we've expelled several members permanently for rule violations.

We're strict, but we have to be.....too strict for some......but that's fine......they can play in the park. All of us who run the club have kids in it, and we play right along with them. We try to get parents out playing with their kids, since airsoft is one of the few sports around where you can actually do that. The members themselves do a lot of the work and planning, and self-police a lot more strictly than any adult-only teams I've seen. They know what they'll lose if we let the club go to sh*t.

While I understand there are a lot of guys who don't think minors should play, it's really more that there are a lot of PEOPLE who shouldn't play.........assholes come in all ages......and we've seen our share......

I'd also put my guys up against any adult team around. We've played against many, and we win a whole lot more than we lose, much to the chagrin of the adults with the $1,000 guns.

It CAN work, and so far, it's working very well for us.

As many guys have said - kids WILL get guns, and they WILL play with them. We avoid a lot of problems, and have a LOT of fun by giving them a safe place to play.

And aside from buying guns, our local retailers (most of whom have approached US to become sponsors) are telling me that by a wide margin, under 18's are their biggest market.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 16:53   #87
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There's one aspect here too that maybe is being glossed over.

I'd place a pretty sizeable bet that the majority of the unknown minors are after an airsoft gun to "have" vs. one to participate in an organized event with.

That's not a unique to minors state of mind either of course but it is another aspect to note.

If you're an outsider with an AEG but no way to get to games because you're too young to drive and you parents don't play, etc. the temptation to misuse will be whispering in your ear day and night.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 17:31   #88
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This isn't hockey either. There is no governing body to protect leagues for minors. If you play Airsoft, then you should have a good idea of what the risks are. But many parents don't. I took a spill the other weekend, and my eyewear flew off my face while I was under fire. No one could see what happened. I covered my face, dug in, and called for stoppage. Now, I reacted properly to that situation. But I'm old enough to know and understand these risks. I am legally capable of taking responsibility for myself.

Nowhere is a place I know of in Canada, that regulates the safety gear a minor "must" wear to protect themselves. Nowhere is there a place that inspects your facility to judge it safe for minors. There is no organization that qualifies FPS, BBs, lighting, weaponry, gear, hazards, etc that minors will face. Therefore there is nowhere qualified to allow a minor to participate.

The "only" even possibly acceptable situation here would be; parents who "fully" are aware of these things. And are playing alongside their own kids in a small group on private property. Where there is no money involved, just parents risking their own respective kids.
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ďREALITY IS LIKE A STONE. TO MANY ITíS HARD AND COLD, THEY CANíT HUG IT OR EAT IT, IT ONLY FRUSTERATES THEM AND DOESNíT DO THEM MUCH GOOD. TO OTHERS ITíS STRONG AND DEPENDABLE, YOU CAN BUILD WITH IT, BUILD UPON IT, OR WORK WITH IT, ALSO USE IT TO SMASH PEOPLE IN THE FACE.Ē
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Old July 17th, 2012, 17:52   #89
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The really crappy thing about kids in Airsoft is actually what makes High School chicks so awesome.

We get older, and they stay the same age.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 17:56   #90
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^
lmfao!!!
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ďREALITY IS LIKE A STONE. TO MANY ITíS HARD AND COLD, THEY CANíT HUG IT OR EAT IT, IT ONLY FRUSTERATES THEM AND DOESNíT DO THEM MUCH GOOD. TO OTHERS ITíS STRONG AND DEPENDABLE, YOU CAN BUILD WITH IT, BUILD UPON IT, OR WORK WITH IT, ALSO USE IT TO SMASH PEOPLE IN THE FACE.Ē
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