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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:31   #46
dwsage
 
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I think Snap does have some pretty good ideas. To the people who say they won't have all minors games because nobody wants to babysit them, I have seen responsible parents actually get into the sport and marshal the games. It's rare but if someone is willing to do it, I say we shouldn't stop them. I do understand that field owners may not want to have the added liability but I say, why not play on a paintball field? The owners have already factored in the liability of having minors on their field. Sure it sucks to deal with the paint sludge but hey.. at least it's somewhere to play. I have definitely noticed that most kids who participate in team oriented sports abide by rules and have the add ability to contribute to a community. Maybe having an Airsoft coach might be a good thing for them. Consider it preschool for military or something.

I can see the argument of "if a kid does something stupid, they will ban airsoft". It's legit argument because there is no alternative purpose of an airsoft gun. It's made to look like a real gun with the purpose of shooting each other. Baseball bats are sports equipment that one bad individual used for a malicious purpose. A kitchen knife is meant to prepare food that one bad person decided to use against people. Those won't get banned because it's clear that the bad individual was the exception to the purpose of the weapon/tool they used. And as unfair as it is for us airsofters, we are already scrutinized for our hobby. We have a lot of negative reputations stacked up even if it's only a few bad apples but that's just the way it is. We have to protect what little freedoms we still have with airsoft. So for all the under 18 year olds, please do understand the predicament we are in.

just my $0.02
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Old July 13th, 2012, 10:49   #47
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Minors with airsoft guns and Minors at airsoft games are 2 separate issues.


For me personally.. I don't want to play with kids.. and a lot of the people I play with and host games for come out to airsoft games to have a break from their own kids.. they want a kid free environment.

I get that 14- 17 year old boys are really keen on this activity.. at that age I was as well.. but we had to play with BB guns... because airsoft did not exist then...

here is the real problem... kids want airsoft guns.. kids want to play with them.. most "official" venues won't let them.. so they end up playing in places they should not be.

We as an airsoft community of Adults ... have to recognize that these guns are in the hands of minors... and if we want to protect the activity it is not about trying to keep them out of their hands .. its about providing safe and controlled places that they can use them.. and learn to handle and employ them properly.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 10:49   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsage View Post
I think Snap does have some pretty good ideas. To the people who say they won't have all minors games because nobody wants to babysit them, I have seen responsible parents actually get into the sport and marshal the games. It's rare but if someone is willing to do it, I say we shouldn't stop them. I do understand that field owners may not want to have the added liability but I say, why not play on a paintball field? The owners have already factored in the liability of having minors on their field. Sure it sucks to deal with the paint sludge but hey.. at least it's somewhere to play. I have definitely noticed that most kids who participate in team oriented sports abide by rules and have the add ability to contribute to a community. Maybe having an Airsoft coach might be a good thing for them. Consider it preschool for military or something.

I can see the argument of "if a kid does something stupid, they will ban airsoft". It's legit argument because there is no alternative purpose of an airsoft gun. It's made to look like a real gun with the purpose of shooting each other. Baseball bats are sports equipment that one bad individual used for a malicious purpose. A kitchen knife is meant to prepare food that one bad person decided to use against people. Those won't get banned because it's clear that the bad individual was the exception to the purpose of the weapon/tool they used. And as unfair as it is for us airsofters, we are already scrutinized for our hobby. We have a lot of negative reputations stacked up even if it's only a few bad apples but that's just the way it is. We have to protect what little freedoms we still have with airsoft. So for all the under 18 year olds, please do understand the predicament we are in.

just my $0.02
That was the few exception we have in the past, besides running around with a paintball marker is different from running around with a airsoft rifle from a distance even th strained professional have a hard time distinguishing whether the airsoft rifle is real or replica toy gun.

Mentoring the under18 been done here in the past, Zeonprime has in the past mentored and allowed some exceptional minors in his games but again those exceptionals have been far and few lately. Until the constant bitching and spoon feeding issue improved you would hardly find any real vets here that would sacrifice his/her playing time to take a underager side by side and show them the ropes it's just too much BS to deal with.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:23   #49
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I find this topic very interesting, from what I've read thus far it appears a lot of the older folk would rather not bother with the youngin's. Being a parent myself, I find it is my duty/obligation/responsibility to raise my children in accordance with the right moral tools, so when they come of age they can be properly integrated into our society. I believe the same should apply to Airsoft.

Now, keep in mind. I have yet to play a single game. With that said, I can't argue the game related points. However, I strongly feel it is our responsibility (those of us who do have kids) to show them the proper way as a few you mentioned prior. This website is a fountain of knowledge when it comes the sport. And I thank my lucky stars for finding it! With that said, would it not be possible to throw out the proper instructional information for the under age kids that do wish to take part in the sport. (I'm sure this topic has been covered from head to toe).

Just a Father's 2 cents.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:37   #50
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I've started playing paintball when I was about 8 years old and moved onto airsoft. I always see you "vets" saying that minors should play paintball because the guns don't look as real, and that airsoft hurts more. A 3g. paintball hits at 8.71 J at 250FPS (usual limits are 280) while a .25 bb has the kinetic energy of 1.86 J at 400 FPS but you guys dont use that because it is shooting to hot!!. So I don't see how paintball is more suited for younger kids than airsoft is? What because in airsoft the guns look real? I think it is more the maturity of the person them-self, some people on this forum are more immature than some "kidtards". I've been playing shooting sports pretty much my whole life and I ALWAYS play with people older than me and they don't seem to give a shit, its another person to play with. And who are you guys to decide who can and can't play? That's why actual sanctioned playing fields have INSURANCE! And that's why they charge admission, why are you charging admission on a random field that you go and play at, that's just as bad as a minor getting a gun. How does twelve thirty year olds running around in a forest with toy guns look any better than kids running around with toy guns? Personally I feel that people would expect the younger kids to be doing this rather than the older people. And if you really want more people to start playing airsoft, how does telling them to research and save for 5 years help? That would turn me off, thank god I didn't come to you guys first.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:45   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W33zy View Post
I've started playing paintball when I was about 8 years old and moved onto airsoft. I always see you "vets" saying that minors should play paintball because the guns don't look as real, and that airsoft hurts more. A 3g. paintball hits at 8.71 J at 250FPS (usual limits are 280) while a .25 bb has the kinetic energy of 1.86 J at 400 FPS but you guys dont use that because it is shooting to hot!!. So I don't see how paintball is more suited for younger kids than airsoft is? What because in airsoft the guns look real? I think it is more the maturity of the person them-self, some people on this forum are more immature than some "kidtards". I've been playing shooting sports pretty much my whole life and I ALWAYS play with people older than me and they don't seem to give a shit, its another person to play with. And who are you guys to decide who can and can't play? That's why actual sanctioned playing fields have INSURANCE! And that's why they charge admission, why are you charging admission on a random field that you go and play at, that's just as bad as a minor getting a gun. How does twelve thirty year olds running around in a forest with toy guns look any better than kids running around with toy guns? Personally I feel that people would expect the younger kids to be doing this rather than the older people. And if you really want more people to start playing airsoft, how does telling them to research and save for 5 years help? That would turn me off, thank god I didn't come to you guys first.
There are many many other reasons why Minors should not be engaged in activities with adults without parental supervision.

Personally .. I have no issue with Minors playing airsoft at sanctioned fields with proper supervision, and playing with other minors.
It is and can be good exercise and effective socialization for young people.. at least it gets them off their butts and away from their computers.

that said.. I have no desire to cater to children, or their parents nor do I have any desire to permit minors to participate at games that I host.. that is my choice.. and it's the preference of the players that I do cater to.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:45   #52
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I find it funny that the underage kids are always the ones whining about maturity.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:49   #53
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I haven't gone to any of your games nor do I plan to. And i find it funny how all you "mature old men" are getting so worked up about kids playing a game
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:49   #54
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I find it funny that the underage kids are always the ones whining about maturity.
My wife whines about my maturity all the time..

it sucks to be deemed "too young" to participate it's seems arbitrary and exclusionary.. and it's frustrating for youth.

I always say .. "you will be too young for a couple of years .. and too old for the rest of your life"

I'll tell you it is far more frustrating to be getting too old to do things you want to because of accumulated damage and physical decline.. the outcome there is far less appealing that being too young.. I would slay thousands to have the chance to be too young again.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:51   #55
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Originally Posted by W33zy View Post
I haven't gone to any of your games nor do I plan to. And i find it funny how all you "mature old men" are getting so worked up about kids playing a game


Well obviously.. you're a kid.. and kids don't play at my games....you will want to .. once you mature and can see the merit.. youth... wasted on the young.

and so foolish to close doors that you have not even seen into the room yet.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:55   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W33zy View Post
I've started playing paintball when I was about 8 years old and moved onto airsoft. I always see you "vets" saying that minors should play paintball because the guns don't look as real, and that airsoft hurts more. A 3g. paintball hits at 8.71 J at 250FPS (usual limits are 280) while a .25 bb has the kinetic energy of 1.86 J at 400 FPS but you guys dont use that because it is shooting to hot!!. So I don't see how paintball is more suited for younger kids than airsoft is? What because in airsoft the guns look real? I think it is more the maturity of the person them-self, some people on this forum are more immature than some "kidtards". I've been playing shooting sports pretty much my whole life and I ALWAYS play with people older than me and they don't seem to give a shit, its another person to play with. And who are you guys to decide who can and can't play? That's why actual sanctioned playing fields have INSURANCE! And that's why they charge admission, why are you charging admission on a random field that you go and play at, that's just as bad as a minor getting a gun. How does twelve thirty year olds running around in a forest with toy guns look any better than kids running around with toy guns? Personally I feel that people would expect the younger kids to be doing this rather than the older people. And if you really want more people to start playing airsoft, how does telling them to research and save for 5 years help? That would turn me off, thank god I didn't come to you guys first.
try walking down the street with your Angel marker in full gear and get another buddy to walk down the street in full airsoft gear see who gets stopped first, Paintball/woodsball and airsoft are two complete different entity yes they are similar as in the format or how the game is played but the equipment are quite different. spoonfeeding newbs is the one thing most real vets here hates there is only so much "which gun is better?" question we can answer we prefer the come to the game approach, however sometimes we do have the immature few that ruined the experience for everyone else. the majority of the new players are mostly expaintballers crossing over unfortunately their game/mindset do get used as well hence we have a different factions of skirmishers and milsimers and even then the milsimers have another broken off faction between the new 8hr specials to the hard core milsimers that is ready for 24-48hr ops
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:56   #57
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I've been on this forum for two years, and I have witnessed what the people are like on here and I don't plan playing with people who are immature, its just a game remember. And 3 months from now when I can be deemed as "age verified" I still wont go play with immature adults.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 12:00   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W33zy View Post
I've been on this forum for two years, and I have witnessed what the people are like on here and I don't plan playing with people who are immature, its just a game remember. And 3 months from now when I can be deemed as "age verified" I still wont go play with immature adults.
Unfortunately there are immature 18+crowd that most real vets here dispised but like the wise old man that we seemed to be, we choose to ignore the retards and let them congregate together because what ever little free time we have it is too precious to be wasted on retards
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Old July 13th, 2012, 12:38   #59
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Originally Posted by W33zy View Post
I've been on this forum for two years, and I have witnessed what the people are like on here and I don't plan playing with people who are immature, its just a game remember. And 3 months from now when I can be deemed as "age verified" I still wont go play with immature adults.
And I, as a mature adult, refuse to play at Adrenaline BECAUSE of their catering to kids (among other things, like... oh... the Mobbs fiasco).

You, child, have yet to see the bigger picture.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 12:46   #60
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Oh, London... right.. it all makes sense now..
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