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Old May 22nd, 2012, 00:01   #1
dwsage
 
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A question for our servicemen and women

I recently came across a rather interesting comment on a RWTV video from someone in the US army along the lines of:
"while I don't mind airsofter's enthusiasm for milsim and looking the part, please stop buying up all the high quality vests because everytime someone in the army is trying to buy a good plate carrier, they are always sold out due to airsofters. The standard issue equipment is sub-par and we often need to buy aftermarket equipment for better protection"

That was just a paraphrase but it was more or less the jist of it. And I do remember a while back when I saw that news report about servicemen overseas scrambling to buy dragonscale armour because it was so much better than plate armour. So I do think there is a need for better armour (at least for the americans).

The question is, do the Canadian military guys need/buy aftermarket plate carriers because the standard issue ones aren't giving them enough protection? I don't want my enthusiasm for realism put someone fighting on behalf of Canada to suffer as a result. Any thoughts?
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 00:15   #2
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In most Units, private purchase plate carriers / chestrigs etc are still forbidden. Some of the more enlightened RSM's out there are starting to let private purchases of these items into use, based upon various interpretations of "approved use" lists floating around out there, but these are still far and few in between.

The vast majority of CF pers requiring load bearing gear are using the CF issue TacVest, despite it's severe limitations and supply shortages of them in the system. Hopefully when the new SORD chestrig/LBV/carrier package comes online for use in Combat Arms Units that will mean more TV's for everyone else.

I call bullshit on the commenter, and would put forward that supply shortages from 3rd party manufacturers of military gear are usually due to massive orders from government orders than from random individual civilian orders. For instance, the reason why OPS CORE helmets are impossible to get right now is that a particular US SF organization submitted a massive order for helmets last November, and OPS CORE has been busy pumping that out on their production line ever since.

Order what you want, don't worry about depriving someone else of gear; the failure of a gear manufacturer to plan their production line accordingly is not your problem.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 00:22   #3
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Just don't buy shady issue kit. That will get folks talking.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 15:25   #4
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I've never heard any of this. I'll throw in on the commenter being full of shit.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 17:15   #5
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Being a veteran and deployed in Afghanistan in 07-08 for 7 months, the Plate Carriers we had were perfect for the situation.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 18:01   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsage View Post
I recently came across a rather interesting comment on a RWTV video from someone in the US army along the lines of:
"while I don't mind airsofter's enthusiasm for milsim and looking the part, please stop buying up all the high quality vests because everytime someone in the army is trying to buy a good plate carrier, they are always sold out due to airsofters.
BS, Condor stated 20% of their sales is airsoft, another words 80% is military, LE, or firearm community

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsage View Post
The standard issue equipment is sub-par and we often need to buy aftermarket equipment for better protection
BS, once again US army does NOT allow individuals to purchase and use own armor. IBA, IOTV, SPCS are the only ones allowed....and they're issued

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsage View Post
\That was just a paraphrase but it was more or less the jist of it. And I do remember a while back when I saw that news report about servicemen overseas scrambling to buy dragonscale armour because it was so much better than plate armour. So I do think there is a need for better armour (at least for the americans).
BS, once again. If you look beyond the media so called test and look at how the US army evaluate it....it failed miserably The scales could not stay intact with heat, shock, and submersion. It's because of that it was rejected, not because it was expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsage View Post
The question is, do the Canadian military guys need/buy aftermarket plate carriers because the standard issue ones aren't giving them enough protection? I don't want my enthusiasm for realism put someone fighting on behalf of Canada to suffer as a result. Any thoughts?
No, because they can't use anything other than what they're issued with for body armor.

Imagine this, I wear my own armor made in China, I got hit and I die. My family is going to sue Canadian Military how are they going to be able to defend it?
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 18:07   #7
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Originally Posted by kullwarrior View Post
BS, Condor stated 20% of their sales is airsoft, another words 80% is military, LE, or firearm community
Having worn Eagle, LBT, Blackhawk!, 5.11, Maxpedition, and Condor. It is fucking terrifying that people would actually trust their life to Condor gear.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 19:36   #8
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Maybe the guy on youtube is talking about the SEAL stuff on eBay that gets snapped up by gear queers in Asia?
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 19:57   #9
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Who knows.... I dunno if that commenter was for real or just full of shit. It did definitely make me think about it though. I know it's forbidden but it doesn't always deter troops from trying to sneak different plate carriers and such.
I do know some people in the military but everytime I talk to them about their experience in afghanistan and iraq, they instantly go mum and say it's classified.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 20:00   #10
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Originally Posted by ShelledPants View Post
Having worn Eagle, LBT, Blackhawk!, 5.11, Maxpedition, and Condor. It is fucking terrifying that people would actually trust their life to Condor gear.
I imagine if the choices are do without or buy Condor, then Condor is the superior choice.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 20:02   #11
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I just don't buy issued stuff, unless it's legitimately surplused out.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 23:44   #12
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I just don't buy issued stuff, unless it's legitimately surplused out.
You have to be really knowledgable to know what is surplus what is not.
Body armor is the most iffy one.

->There are NO surplus plate, if you look at DRMO (Defense Reutilization Management Office) on plates, it says they're all destroyed.
->The only soft armor vest that are officially surplus are the PASGT vest
->IBA, IOTV, SPCS are NOT surplus either

How can individuals get plates and IBA/IOTV/SPCS legally? Buy it from contractor. There are civilian working along with miltary, they can purchase armor. (An source I'm aware of is www.entrygear.com) These armor they purchase are NOT army property but rather personal. They do not turn them in nor do they get it for free.
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 14:54   #13
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I guess I meant more for the BDUs and such. I've never bought used armour, nor would I. I used to work security, we were always careful with our inserts.

When I get surplus I do it at a surplus store. Usually in Port Credit.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 06:40   #14
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Chances are I'd pass on it too

I'm still old school with my BDUs. Not a thread of digital anywhere. Not even Multicam. I'm all pre-Y2K.

Surplus or repro. I can't afford the real thing anyway, nor does my life depend on it when I'm playing Airsoft.
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Old May 27th, 2012, 04:34   #15
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The only time I could see a military unit or regiment being able to buy "what they want"; would be if it's SF, SSF, SO, etc. Even then, there must be strict rules to adhere to. I would have to imagine that a SEAL team for instance would have nearly whatever they want, supplied for them. Within reason of course. So most likely you'll see small personal gear touches, instead of primary pieces of kit.

Those that buy loads of high end gear from a tactical store would most likely be a collector, or PMC. But there is no direct correlation to me buying out the whole store, and someone doing their job. It's a business, they don't care who's buying their product. If a soldier (private or government) has a job that hinges on the fact that a certain piece of gear will be available at the retail or online level "right now", they're doing it wrong.
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