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Old July 10th, 2005, 14:13   #121
Scarecrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agit-Prop
I have to make 2 points even though it's going to step on some toes.

1. This is starting to sound like "league paintball"
2. I don't beleive in the firearms registry. Why should I buy into an airsoft registry?

If it wasn't me saying it, it would be someone else, so dont judge the questions based on who's asking them.
I am not judging - I am just rebutting, so I am not taking anything personally. This is a good discussion and I am glad we are having it and that everyone is taking it seriously enough to consider these arguments. Keep them coming, they are welcome.

On to the response...

Why should I sign up at ASC as a user? What benefit do I derive from registering myself as a member of this community and being over 18? There are benefits to being a known person within this community that we already cooperate on by signing up to dboards. Based on the summarized analogy, AirsoftCanada.com itself is a form of a registry. You're already participating in one. Uh oh... 'I've been registered'

If I were asking people to serialize themselves or their airsoft guns I might agree with the metaphor. Thats not what is being discussed. I am talking about nothing more that what we already do on ASC except with attendance and player ratings, nothing more - its not even a dboard per se. It would work cooperatively with dboards though.

It would also be entirely voluntary. Hosts could sign their games up there and players could sign up to attend. In the short term, some people may resist such a system, until they see the benefits that result - more reliable games with more solid attendance by what is posted is what shows. We'll see.
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Old July 10th, 2005, 14:26   #122
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Trying to equate registering a membership on ASC with "A registry of those in this association, org or whatever it's called of the weapons they PLAY with and what they are Chronied at (Upgrades and changes should be informed so that the new FPS/X.Xgram can be recorded)" is an extreme stretch, Jay.
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Old July 10th, 2005, 14:34   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agit-Prop
Trying to equate registering a membership on ASC with "A registry of those in this association, org or whatever it's called of the weapons they PLAY with and what they are Chronied at (Upgrades and changes should be informed so that the new FPS/X.Xgram can be recorded)" is an extreme stretch, Jay.
Its a suggestion of potential issues that could be dealt with in such as organization. Something like this would require its members to develop and formulate its mandate. Besides we chrony before a game. If someone could be trusted to chrony their gun once and declare it 'safe' and not require it to be chronied again until its modified or opened would be welcome. Chronying takes over an hour at games with over 35 players.

I don't think its a stretch at all. Currently this association holds no information about its members, while ASC has quite a bit more information about its members to the point where when a joke about the database being handed over to the RCMP made people go absolutely BATSHIT. I would not dismiss the analogy so easily.

EDIT: Incidently, I am not saying its a bad thing, what I am saying is that ASC is an example of a precident where players have agreed to a certain amount of information disclosure in order to obtain certain benefits. As with ASC, this is entirely voluntary and if you disagree with it, you don't have to be a part of it.
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Old July 11th, 2005, 09:22   #124
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Sounds like a cluster-f&ck to me
There is no need for this. Airsofts not perfect, life goes on.
As Exocett stated "Airsoft isn't a sport, its a hobbie"
ASC doesn't need a round table and fields don't need ASC interfearence. These issues can and should be delt with by the field operators.
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Old July 11th, 2005, 11:30   #125
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Well, this is starting to go off-topic and becoming like that Ontario Airsoft Roundtable thread. I'm going to lock this up for a few days for things to simmer.

Please review the other thread for more information on this OAR idea.

Anyone have problems my locking this, feel free to PM me.
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Old July 11th, 2005, 21:20   #126
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Thread re-opened, let's keep this one on topic please. This thread's about the attendance to games. Post your thoughts on the 'Airsoft Roundtable' in the other thread.

Thanks.
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Old July 11th, 2005, 21:35   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agit-Prop
Trying to equate registering a membership on ASC with "A registry of those in this association, org or whatever it's called of the weapons they PLAY with and what they are Chronied at (Upgrades and changes should be informed so that the new FPS/X.Xgram can be recorded)" is an extreme stretch, Jay.
Its a suggestion of potential issues that could be dealt with in such as organization. Something like this would require its members to develop and formulate its mandate. Besides we chrony before a game. If someone could be trusted to chrony their gun once and declare it 'safe' and not require it to be chronied again until its modified or opened would be welcome. Chronying takes over an hour at games with over 35 players.

I don't think its a stretch at all. Currently this association holds no information about its members, while ASC has quite a bit more information about its members to the point where when a joke about the database being handed over to the RCMP made people go absolutely BATSHIT. I would not dismiss the analogy so easily.
That's because a few people are gullible and silly.
We don't hold any information on ASC short of a useless IP and an email address, and none of that information is ever public unless you choose it to be. There is no master list of people names or addresses or anything. Sean maintains some data for his purposes, but it isn't online or even complete, because we never intended to record any data anyway. There's no correlation between a dboard and what you're talking about.
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Old July 11th, 2005, 21:48   #128
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I say (and always have) ASC should just delete the whole "Players and Events" section to make people go to local boards and deal with this crap there. Everybody but QC and ON already does it this way :0)

Nic
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Old July 11th, 2005, 21:56   #129
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Well, I do believe HoJo's in the process of setting up Airsoft Ontario... =)
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Old July 11th, 2005, 22:30   #130
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Well, I do believe HoJo's in the process of setting up Airsoft Ontario... =)
Negative, put on hold indefinitely...
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Old July 11th, 2005, 22:53   #131
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Originally Posted by midgetspy
I say (and always have) ASC should just delete the whole "Players and Events" section to make people go to local boards and deal with this crap there. Everybody but QC and ON already does it this way :0)

Nic

QC and ON people are too lazy to make our own community boards... :P
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Old July 11th, 2005, 22:59   #132
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QC and ON people are too lazy to make our own community boards... :P
When it first started, this was the ON people board.

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Old July 11th, 2005, 23:14   #133
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If we're going to deal with the attendance issue, then lets deal with the attendance issue. The game organizers know whos not showing up, so they can simply archive the chronic no-shows somewhere. I don't think that's unreasonable. Chronic of course, means REPEATED on a regular long term basis. If you want to set a number.. that's a different topic.

I think the field rules can be treated in a similar way. There are only so many hosts, and so many fields.. so lets just hammer out a basic (and I mean REALLY basic) set of rules we can all run by. We're pretty much there anyways (400-450 fps limit, goggle restrictions, etc). You can slap an acronym into a game post or field post to signify compliance.

But we have to remember that these are the restrictions WE.. being ontario/quebec play with. Other places have similar restrictions, but vary slightly.
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Old July 12th, 2005, 08:10   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestJohn
Sean maintains some data for his purposes, but it isn't online or even complete, because we never intended to record any data anyway. There's no correlation between a dboard and what you're talking about.
Data is data, collected intentionally or not through an application or purpose. Doesn't matter who stores it for what purpose, its still stored and used for the good of the userbase to whatever purpose its used.

The example was used to illustrate how users come together and agree to disclose certain information to obtain benefits from sharing that information. Nothing you've said really negates my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat
I think the field rules can be treated in a similar way. There are only so many hosts, and so many fields.. so lets just hammer out a basic (and I mean REALLY basic) set of rules we can all run by. We're pretty much there anyways (400-450 fps limit, goggle restrictions, etc). You can slap an acronym into a game post or field post to signify compliance.

But we have to remember that these are the restrictions WE.. being ontario/quebec play with. Other places have similar restrictions, but vary slightly.
I would be all for doing something like that. Other provinces have successfully done this. Ontario and Quebec remain exceptions I think in part because of the rather fragmented opinions on the issue - its a hot potato nobody wants to tackle. It should be tackled though.
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Old July 12th, 2005, 09:27   #135
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You know, an association works EVERYWHERE ELSE but Ontario. Why does everyone think it's such a bad idea here? I'm honestly curious.
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