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Old July 6th, 2005, 13:20   #91
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Its not easy knowing ahead of time, especially if you cant drive or often have erratic work schedules. The purpose of a tenative is to show your interest in the event.

I myself, have something similar to a ~90% chance of going to a game after saying tenative, most of the time it leads to confirmed.

And btw, one of the previous comments made a metaphor to leaving an item on hold in a store. A confirmed status is this, not a tenative. I dont mind if someone confirmed before me and takes my spot. Thats fair. So Im not preventing anyone else from going.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 14:05   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapplez
Its not easy knowing ahead of time, especially if you cant drive or often have erratic work schedules. The purpose of a tenative is to show your interest in the event.

I myself, have something similar to a ~90% chance of going to a game after saying tenative, most of the time it leads to confirmed.

And btw, one of the previous comments made a metaphor to leaving an item on hold in a store. A confirmed status is this, not a tenative. I dont mind if someone confirmed before me and takes my spot. Thats fair. So Im not preventing anyone else from going.

yes but... you are adding to the "false count"
Organizers can't count on you being there... so they don't need to hear about it.

If you don't expect a "tentative" to hold your spot... then of what possible use is it to anyone?

"tentative"... regardless of your intent, comes off as "i'll come if nothing better comes along" which belittles the hard work of Hosts and Organizers.

This is a "hobby" so obviously real world issues can get in the way.

But I think that we all have to hold ourselves to high standards of integrity, Say what you will do, do what you say. If you can't commit, say nothing.

These are friends and collegues putting, in many cases their own money, and certainly their own time on the line, They deserve nothing less.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 14:17   #93
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Saying and doing are two totally different things. Your either there, or your not. Anyone can "want" to go, but its really a matter of if you know you will beable to. IMO, it would be better to show up to a game and not sign up, than sign up and not attend. Stuff can be changed around when you actually have a decent number of people. You know those who attend will also go because they WANT to and are dedicated. I am aware there are a few exceptions. Confirm with your work schedule, plan for the wife to take care of the kids on the weekend ( well try anyways ) Get rides straighted out b4 hand with plenty of time. Have a ***BACKUP*** plan.

I completely understand its just a game, but when ya look at the hardwork and time these hosts have put towards the plot and setups for these games, you wont beable to comprehend the emptiness they must feel when they get a poor turnout.

I do like the deposit idea. Will work wonders.

Cheers :cheers:
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Old July 6th, 2005, 14:44   #94
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I've never complained about having more people than signed up. I can always accomodate more people. Even in places like FR or Wasaga I've seen players caps with more people arriving, I've never seen anyone turned away.

Put it this way, as a game organizer I'd rather be faced with fitting someone in than try and collapse two or three roles into one person in order to make a game work the way it was designed to.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 15:05   #95
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Excuse my laziness for not reading all 6 pagesÖ but my thoughts are this.

I think the problem can be simplified thusly. The age base that weíve marketed (either directly or indirectly) the sport of Airsoft too are not as mature as the game hosts or other members would like. What started out as a sport played between close knit groups of friends has now exploded to include everyone young and old.

No longer is there that close family feeling when you go out to games. Now itís bland and in-personal. A really big reason a lot of players in Calgary have quit going to games. Clubs have recently reported as little as under 10 people showing up for an outdoor saturday game. Now Iím not saying we all sign up and just donít go, rather, it could provide some insight as to some underlying problems in the Airsoft community that could contribute to this lack of caring.

Perhaps we have, through our own ignorance, just ended up in the same boat as paintball.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 15:57   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapplez
Its not easy knowing ahead of time, especially if you cant drive or often have erratic work schedules. The purpose of a tenative is to show your interest in the event.

I myself, have something similar to a ~90% chance of going to a game after saying tenative, most of the time it leads to confirmed.

And btw, one of the previous comments made a metaphor to leaving an item on hold in a store. A confirmed status is this, not a tenative. I dont mind if someone confirmed before me and takes my spot. Thats fair. So Im not preventing anyone else from going.

yes but... you are adding to the "false count"
Organizers can't count on you being there... so they don't need to hear about it.

If you don't expect a "tentative" to hold your spot... then of what possible use is it to anyone?

"tentative"... regardless of your intent, comes off as "i'll come if nothing better comes along" which belittles the hard work of Hosts and Organizers.

This is a "hobby" so obviously real world issues can get in the way.

But I think that we all have to hold ourselves to high standards of integrity, Say what you will do, do what you say. If you can't commit, say nothing.

These are friends and collegues putting, in many cases their own money, and certainly their own time on the line, They deserve nothing less.
Saying tenative, is an informal commitment of going to this certain airsoft game if able. That is what it means to me, and Im not trying to defend others that abuse this. Anyone that posts an tenative to wait and see if another game gets more players is just dishonorable, and I dont approve of that.

But in response to your question of the point of posting a tenative, its to give the host a rough idea of what size of the teams will be. Its hard for everyone to know if they can or cant go one month in advance, but an host can get a rough idea, as opposed to the host only finding out all the info a few days before the game.

edit : Also, tenative is a temporary status, one that exists for a time before the date of the game. There should be no tenatives a day or two before the game , only confirmed and people that cant make it.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:02   #97
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I've been following this post since the first page, but haven't found it necessary to post anything up yet. I have seen valid points from boths sides and sometimes shit does hit the fan and some things must take priority over airsoft. Very often we see the same people signing up and not going (which is uncool), which ruins the organizers plans for the weekend. It's not easy hosting big mil sim games, all missons are planned out taking into account the people that sign up. Right now I don't have any input on how we can better this situation. But if I do think of something I will definitely post it up here.

As far as what infernal said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by infernal
I think the problem can be simplified thusly. The age base that weíve marketed (either directly or indirectly) the sport of Airsoft too are not as mature as the game hosts or other members would like. What started out as a sport played between close knit groups of friends has now exploded to include everyone young and old.

No longer is there that close family feeling when you go out to games. Now itís bland and in-personal. A really big reason a lot of players in Calgary have quit going to games. Clubs have recently reported as little as under 10 people showing up for an outdoor saturday game. Now Iím not saying we all sign up and just donít go, rather, it could provide some insight as to some underlying problems in the Airsoft community that could contribute to this lack of caring.
I don't see this being as a problem. I see the big problem is that, Airsofters goal to keep this sport under the word "close nit family" has turn some of them arrogant. Not willing to teach or welcome new players into this sport. Thus leaving all the new people to fend for themselvers and now creating two seperate groups of airsofters.
But this is a whole different topic all together. If anyone wants to start this debate, you are welcomed to start a new thread.

Sorry guys for jackin' the thread a lil, just wanted to add my 2cents.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:07   #98
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I was slightly surfing that notion with my post... but its been covered before and beaten to death in previous threads.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:08   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infernal
Excuse my laziness for not reading all 6 pagesÖ but my thoughts are this.
There is quite a bit of worthwhile material here, I'd encourage you to check it out so you're not making a point thats already been whipped to death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infernal
No longer is there that close family feeling when you go out to games. Now itís bland and in-personal. A really big reason a lot of players in Calgary have quit going to games. Clubs have recently reported as little as under 10 people showing up for an outdoor saturday game. Now Iím not saying we all sign up and just donít go, rather, it could provide some insight as to some underlying problems in the Airsoft community that could contribute to this lack of caring.
Well, I know there are a lot more private events happening than there used to be, particularly inside Wolfpack for instance. We do it just because we've gathered a fairly reliable crowd around us and its easy to put together and you don't need to do anything special to attract players - most of us are as happy with a muddle puddle as we are with a bunker complex - as long as we can skulk around and shoot we're happy.

I've always tried not to succum to the fatalistic idea that somehow as we become more public we become less 'friendly'. I find a game is what you make it. I try to make rounds at games and meet the new faces and learn new names and make people feel welcome... prior to trying to hand them their ass...

What I have noticed is the incredible turnover in players. People come into the sport and go out almost on an 18 month cycle. Its very weird.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:20   #100
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I like the 'only-negative' feedback option, and i'd like to suggestion something similar.. or an 'upgrade' if you will.

An only-negative feedback, which is hidden from everyone, up until the point where there are say, 3 negative feedbacks entered to that name. Then, the negative feedback icon would appear under the player's name (just like the Trader Rating).

This would help with the 'miscommunication' and the 'last minute hospital call'.


As a side note, i'd also like to mention the LIFT problem. Its happened to a lot of players, where they all confirm, but the driver cancels... ultimatly, 4 players do not show up even tho they were all confirmed... And its not their fault... If a system is instored, it should account for that.

Perharps a good way to do this would be to have only the organisators who actually 'Post' games in the 'games' section be able to leave ratings. It would then be their responsability to take presences at their games and later on, leave negative feedbacks on anyone who didn't show up if so desired?
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:25   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
As a side note, i'd also like to mention the LIFT problem. Its happened to a lot of players, where they all confirm, but the driver cancels... ultimatly, 4 players do not show up even tho they were all confirmed... And its not their fault... If a system is instored, it should account for that.
I dunno, maybe I am an asshole but, my response to that is, why is that my problem? (as a player or host) Its still a failure to appear as promised... Get better arrangements made next time. Its also the most overused excuse in the book, so I don't buy it...
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:38   #102
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losing a ride can be overcome by renting a car. in a situation where 3 people are dependant on the 4th to drive and bails, why not rent a car for the day. granted, sometimes it's hard on a long weekend or if the driver bails the night before the game but if it's the morning before a game than why not rent? take the cost of the rental and divide it amongst the 3 remaining. hell, you might even be able to break it down one more time if someone needs a ride home after.

this might not always be worth it for some to attend a skirmish day but it's certainly worth it for a milsim.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:47   #103
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Old July 6th, 2005, 16:55   #104
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Ok well guys, no offence, but i have no place for a car in my life, nor the money to invest in the car, the insurance and the parking tickets.

Renting a car requires a Credit Card and a one-day rental must usually requires a reservation and cash down at least 48hrs during weekends, or you are stuck with a 80$perday car selection... don't know about you'all.. but that's just not acceptable.

As for not buying it, sorry mate, but it's happened to me in more then one occasion. Had to return home, PM the organisation and say 'Sorry, my lift bailed'.

I hate to be the black sheep of this thing... but if all you guys can come up with is the responces that were just posted... you're really... seriously... not helping this conversation.
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Old July 6th, 2005, 17:05   #105
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True enough. Being someone who's truck is currently not in good running condition, I understand the whole "ride bailed" or can't get a ride situation because it's happened to me and The Punisher once before (since we carpool). It sucks,true. But so does showing up at a game and finding that only 5 or 6 people showed up. It can go either way. Whoever said it, you're right, some of the best games are made up off 5on5's all day long in the drug lab, but when you go there and the attendees list was 18 people long and well over half bailed, something's not right.

Overall, I think it's up to the game host to decide whether to allow tentatives or not. But I believe that bailing WITH a post either one or two days prior to the game is OK. On the other hand, when you don't show with no warning, that's just inmature and being moronic. So there's my two euro-cents. :cheers:
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