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New guy going from real to airsoft. These laws are confusing.

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Old March 23rd, 2013, 13:05   #46
Hectic
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All I can say, is I don't want to be that person in the courtroom where the governments intent, or the way it's read comes into play.

^that is why i suggest even tho it is "legal" to be above 500 based on the cbsa laws its safer to just keep it under to avoid having stuff have to go for further testing or just being turned away at the border.
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While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 00:15   #47
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Originally Posted by pestobanana View Post
In short

FPS < 366 fps = replica firearm - prohibited device.
366 ≤ FPS < 500 = uncontrolled firearm - free to own without licensing
500 < FPS = firearm

Yes it's fucked up, if it can't hurt you it's illegal, but if it can it's legal. If it's real, you can have it with licensing, if it's a look-alike it's illegal.



There is no point. We're interpreting poor wording in the Canadian Firearms Act in a way that makes airsoft guns legal. While the act was made with pellet guns in consideration, airsoft guns were unknown at the time.
I think the 366 FPS is only applicable to CBSA (uncontrolled firearm). I find no reference to it in the Criminal Code.

Technically, airsoft guns are not firearms (< 500 fps), and if they ressemble with near precision an actual firearm the CC defines them as prohibited devices, unless they are clear plastic.

I looked at it from the perspective of "what could I be charged with if I had a prohibited device?", as my employer wouldn't look kindly on something like that.

From my reading of the CC, simply having a prohibited device or using it in a safe manner for certain activities isn't a crime. Now, if I were to use it in a careless manner (section 86(1)) or concealed it (section 90(1)), I could be charged, but as long as I used it only for the purpose of the sport/game and was careful about transporting it, this seems - at least to me - the real reason why no one is running afoul of the CC.

The "uncontrolled firearm" interpretation is only for CBSA.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 14:51   #48
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Your best bet is to go to a local airsoft store (if you have one). That way there going to have a much bigger selection in guns and gear. Also you don't half to worry about laws and such.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 15:14   #49
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Originally Posted by OpAirsoftBaller View Post
Your best bet is to go to a local airsoft store (if you have one). That way there going to have a much bigger selection in guns and gear. Also you don't half to worry about laws and such.
Bigger selection in local store? You must have very wealthy and very big stores in your area...

There's no way on earth a local store will stock every single rifles, pistols, electric or gas available on the market...

The actual best way to have good selection at a good price, is on these forums in the age verified section; Classifieds with upgraded/used but still very good guns are there, (often) at a fraction of the price you'd pay new to get to the same place (a 650$ TM Hicapa for 465$? Hell yeah), and tons of great, in-canada retailers with brand new stuff, capable of custom imports if you need it; And all that at competitive prices

That said, you'll find "better prices" overseas, or even in the US. But once you factor in Shipping, Duties, taxes, etc. You'll end up paying about the same price as here... but with delays, risk of seizing, risk of legal complication if you don't know what you do...

As for the importation laws (I haven't read the thread completely so maybe someone already wrote that):

above 366fps measured with .2g
below 500fps AND 5.7 joules -> that's over 50 km/s for a .2g projectile
Velocity have to be explicitely written on the box or manual or manufacturer website; Retailer website is usually a no go, they can write what they want in there.

...

Criminal code don't make discrimination between replica, airsoft gun or firemarm. If you get stupid with it, you eat the full bag of sh*t just like the guy that used a real gun to do the same crime

Long story short, get age verified; this will give you the opportunity to have a nice talk with some (probably) passionate airsofter with tons of info for you, and give you access to good stuff already in canada

Good luck!
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 16:29   #50
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Criminal code don't make discrimination between replica, airsoft gun or firemarm. If you get stupid with it, you eat the full bag of sh*t just like the guy that used a real gun to do the same crime
Some sections (e.g. 91 & 92) do distinguish between firearms and replica firearms, but yes, you can get yourself into the same trouble with a replica as with an actual firearm.

From what I gleaned from the relevant sections of the CC, you have to do something dumb with the replica to get into trouble. I didn't see anything in the CC that would enable law enforcment to lay a charge on someone who basically keeps his guns out of public view and transports them safely to play the sport.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 16:31   #51
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I have a RPAL and I was target shooting with real steel and hunting before discovering airsoft (so glad I did).

I find the 60% very hard to believe without any supporting source.

Canada is #13 in per capita gun ownership. We have 30.8% gun ownership (source: UN -ODC, Nation Master, etc.) in a country where 80% of the population lives in urban areas, with the majority in 3 major cities (source: Stats Canada), where gun ownership is unpopular.

If anything it seems the majority of people who want guns can own guns in Canada. Perhaps the 60% is indicative of the number of Canadians who have no interest in owning firearms and therefore do not have a licence.

Still I cannot find any faults with Canada’s very easy gun licencing requirements. Though I do find faults with some of the restrictions imposed on licenced gun owners.



Being under 18, (about 20% of the population according to Stats Canada), does not deprive an individual from getting a PAL/RPAL, they just have wait until they are of legal age, as is the case with driving, voting, etc.

If an individual cannot pass the PAL or RPAL test then either they knew nothing about firearms and were not paying attention during the course, or they are lacking in basic logic and understanding, and would hurt themselves if allowed to own a firearm. The PAL/RPAL tests are not difficult, they can be repeated, and comparatively speaking the Ontario driver's licence tests and most high school tests (not even exams) are more difficult than the PAL/RPAL test.

Besides being under the legal age (easily fixed once of legal age) and lacking average intelligence, the only other factors that can prevent a Canadian from receiving their PAL/RPAL is committing an unpardonable violent crime, having an observable serious mental health problem or having a wife that is against guns.

Therefore any Canadian of legal age, with average intelligence, not suffering from a serious mental health issue and who has not committed an unpardonable violent crime can acquire a PAL/RPAL.



It does take up to 3 months to get your licence and you do have to answer some very simple questions about yourself during an RCMP phone interview, but that’s a good thing because if you answer yes to anything like being suicidal or wanting to hurt other people then you should not be allowed to own a gun.

What I find burdensome are all the unnecessary restrictions that gun owners must face after the background check and phone interview. Gun laws like airsoft laws don’t always make sense.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 16:36   #52
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From what I gleaned from the relevant sections of the CC, you have to do something dumb with the replica to get into trouble. I didn't see anything in the CC that would enable law enforcment to lay a charge on someone who basically keeps his guns out of public view and transports them safely to play the sport.
As far as I am aware a replica gun (a near precision replica of a real gun) that fires less than 366 fps or fires blanks is prohibited in Canada.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 16:58   #53
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As far as I am aware a replica gun (a near precision replica of a real gun) that fires less than 366 fps or fires blanks is prohibited in Canada.
That's a CBSA thing. They don't allow the importation of replica firearms. CC doesn't care about 366 fps, only if the (barreled) weapon fires projectiles with sufficient velocity or energy to cause serious injury - currently defined (in CC) as 500+ fps.

According to the CC, if the gun closely ressembles an actual firearm (clear guns excluded) but is not itself a firearm, it is a prohibited device...but I didn't see anything in the CC about charges that can be laid until you do something dumb with the PD. That's when you get into trouble.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 17:55   #54
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That's a CBSA thing. They don't allow the importation of replica firearms. CC doesn't care about 366 fps, only if the (barreled) weapon fires projectiles with sufficient velocity or energy to cause serious injury - currently defined (in CC) as 500+ fps.

According to the CC, if the gun closely ressembles an actual firearm (clear guns excluded) but is not itself a firearm, it is a prohibited device...but I didn't see anything in the CC about charges that can be laid until you do something dumb with the PD. That's when you get into trouble.
I know for prohibited [real] firearms, like full-auto fire rifles, you need an almost impossible to obtain prohibited class gun licence.

As for replica hand guns, this is what the RCMP website states:

This information sheet describes how the Firearms Act and Criminal Code apply to replica firearms.

A replica firearm is a device that is not a real firearm, but that was designed to look exactly or almost exactly like a real firearm.


...

Individuals may keep any replicas that they owned on December 1, 1998. A licence is not required to possess a replica firearm, and it does not have to be registered. However, individuals cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm. If a replica firearm is taken out of Canada, it cannot be brought back in. Businesses may possess, acquire or import replica firearms only if they have a valid Firearms Business Licence that allows them to possess prohibited devices for an approved purpose.

Lending or Borrowing Replica Firearms

A replica firearm cannot be sold or given to an individual or an unlicensed business. However, a replica firearm can be loaned to:
•a person who borrows it specifically to fulfill their duties or employment in a motion picture, television, video or theatrical or publishing activities; or
•a certified instructor
...

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...plique-eng.htm
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