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New guy going from real to airsoft. These laws are confusing.

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Old April 25th, 2012, 13:52   #31
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Then what is the point of this law?
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Old April 25th, 2012, 14:01   #32
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couple guys in manitoba have been importing their own guns for a few years now.
Seems the only people that say it's illegal to do so are either talking about low fps guns, really loyal to retailers, or just don't know any better
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Old April 25th, 2012, 14:31   #33
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Originally Posted by misomalu View Post
I know this thread is about a month old, but what exactly do the new laws say? I mean if I personally order a gun from over seas that shoots over 366 fps, does that mean that it will get to me? Or will the CBSA just hold/destroy my gun if they feel like it? I'm sure this has already been asked by someone, but I have searched forums for hours finding no answer, or even mention of this law.
If the gun is a model on the FRT or is advertised as shooting over 366 fps with 0.2g on the packing, then it SHOULD get through without issue. For "unlisted' guns, CBSA have been referring to manufacturers' web sites for specs.

As Thundercactus said, there have been guys importing under the proper regularions (407 fps with .23g or whatever) for years now and it's all legal. The limits have not been lowered significantly meaning that it's now easier to import, and personal importation has become for feasible.

That being said, CBSA are not known for consistency in enforcing regulations. If the agent has the slightest doubt about the item or had a shitty day and doesn't want to be bothered, he can just seize it at his own discretion. At that point, you have to go through the appeals process to get it released. That could take anything from 1 week to 1 year. And any testing done on your gun by the RCMP before release is done at your expense. And their testing isn't cheap.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 12:32   #34
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Read here:
http://www.replicaairguns.com/posts/...er-366fps.html

Officially here:
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publicati...2-005-eng.html

Here is the official statement from the CBSA:

1. The purpose of this notice is to advise of changes affecting the classification of 6mm calibre airsoft guns.

2. Section 2 of the Criminal Code defines a firearm as “a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon, as well as anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm”.

3. As outlined in Memorandum D19-13-2, Importing and Exporting Firearms, Weapons and Devices, it was previously established that an airsoft gun, firing a .22g 6mm plastic pellet, must have a muzzle velocity in excess of 124 m/s (407 fps), in order to be considered a firearm.

4. Based on the latest research, it is now established that the muzzle velocity at which a .20g 6mm plastic airsoft projectile is capable of causing serious bodily injury is 111.6 m/s (366 fps).

5. Airsoft guns, firing a .20g 6mm plastic pellet, with a muzzle velocity above 111.6 m/s (366 fps), will be classified as firearms. Please refer to D19-13-2 for the import requirements of low muzzle velocity firearms, including low muzzle velocity “uncontrolled” firearms.

6. If an airsoft gun, firing a .20g 6mm plastic pellet, shoots below 111.6 m/s (366 fps), and resembles with near precision an existing make and model of a firearm, other than an antique firearm, it will be classified as replica firearm. Replica firearms are prohibited devices and must meet import requirements as listed in D19-13-2.

7. Inquiries and comments about this notice should be directed to: Other Government Department Programs Unit Programs Branch Canada Border Services Agency E-mail: faw-aaf@cbsa-asfc.gc.ca
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 01:03   #35
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So based on that, slow airsoft guns are illegal and higher velocity ones require a PAL? I guess they would be classified as non restricted fire arms
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 01:07   #36
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I just read further in to that. And it has to do with importing fire arms. Very interesting. So in Canada where do airsoft guns fall? Are they fire arms if they shoot above 366? Or does this not apply.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 01:26   #37
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Originally Posted by Buzzballer View Post
So based on that, slow airsoft guns are illegal
Yes
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Originally Posted by Buzzballer View Post
and higher velocity ones require a PAL? I guess they would be classified as non restricted fire arms
No

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Originally Posted by Buzzballer View Post
I just read further in to that. And it has to do with importing fire arms. Very interesting. So in Canada where do airsoft guns fall? Are they fire arms if they shoot above 366? Or does this not apply.
Airsoft guns are not firearms.
they are airsoft guns.

below 366 = replica
366-470 = airsoft gun
470 + pellet gun
past that I believe its a firearm

There are a lot of threads in the age restricted section regarding the importation of airsoft guns
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 01:38   #38
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Originally Posted by Buzzballer View Post
I just read further in to that. And it has to do with importing fire arms. Very interesting. So in Canada where do airsoft guns fall? Are they fire arms if they shoot above 366? Or does this not apply.
It can look and feel real as all hell so long as it had a velocity ABOVE 366fps and below 500 it will be considered an "uncontrolled firearm" uncontrolled meaning no special license is needed to import transport or posses it. Yes its confusing as all hell the wording is all messed up you gotta reffer to diferent definitions and sections of the memorandum to fully understand it but the breakdown is above 366 below 500 clear to import. Just be sure the fps is clearly labled on the box and if you like to make it simpler quoate the memorandum section that states the part about the 366 fps have the retailer thest the gun and include the fps on the document and affix it to the outside of the box. If you buy say a TM and have it upgraded for import do the same but re word it something to the effect. This airsoft gun has been pre uograded fo the canadian market to meet the requirements in memorandum...blah blah the tested fps is. ..blah blah. And youll will be good.

Mods based on the content of this thread (even befor my post) i vote this should go in thd ristricted section.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 01:51   #39
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Edit thats strange i quoated a post but it vannished lol.

783 is 5.7 joules.
I wasnt suggesting it is a firearm just because of 500 fps just once you hit 500 it becomes a hassel as they will want to hold for testing and such plus only a lvl2 bolt action user needs/will use on the field 500fps so going above that to import is pointless.
And even at 366 regardless of energy because of the look of it and so on it is considered a firearm but its an "uncontrolled" firearm that puts it into the greyish area as far as firearms are concerned but allows us to import without issue.
But yes you are correct a firearm by definition must meet both 500+fps AND 5.7j + not either or
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 02:03   #40
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In short

FPS < 366 fps = replica firearm - prohibited device.
366 ≤ FPS < 500 = uncontrolled firearm - free to own without licensing
500 < FPS = firearm

Yes it's fucked up, if it can't hurt you it's illegal, but if it can it's legal. If it's real, you can have it with licensing, if it's a look-alike it's illegal.

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Then what is the point of this law?
There is no point. We're interpreting poor wording in the Canadian Firearms Act in a way that makes airsoft guns legal. While the act was made with pellet guns in consideration, airsoft guns were unknown at the time.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 02:06   #41
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500fps AND 5.7j is a firearm not just 500fps but its just beter (read easyer less hassels) to stay below 500
And the original laws didnt include airsoft as it was "unknown" at the time the new revision was created to include airsoft guns but it is a lil scetchy still as they learn about airsoft.
Hopefully the next revision will be more clear and also remove the bogus 366 thing and just set an upper limit so TM's and other "low powered" but high quality guns will be easy to import as well lotta nice pistols id love to get bug cant due to that crappy 366 thing. Lil derringers and other nice japanease guns.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 03:22   #42
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They've never revised the law. Only the interpretation. The Firearms Act on prescribes the definition of a replica firearm, and the part of the definition that's keeping us afloat is "cannot cause serious bodily harm". What's changed is RCMP testing to determine what the minimum fps requirement is to cause blindness. A few years ago the RCMP did tests on a cow's eye or something and determined it to be 407fps, and a year or two ago they reduced it to 366.

Considering how shitty it all used to be, I'm pretty damn happy with the progress we've made.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 11:50   #43
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Originally Posted by Dirtbag View Post
The 60% is statistical BS
No, it isn't. It is a fact.



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you need only be over a given age and able to pass a test.
Well, there is 50% right there.


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Assuming you are not under a lifetime or other firearms prohibition.
Add another percent or two. Now add in the remainder who are not under a court-ordered prohibition yet still have CC convictions that preclude them from passing the background check.

So, 60% would appear not to be BS at all.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 12:04   #44
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Real Guns: At least afik from the US, you simply import your firearm either through airport security (by you physically crossing the border) and with the required paperwork. So long as everything is under legal requirements you are clear. (paperwork may have changed from killing the long gun registry)
Careful, that is illegal you need export paperwork from the State Department to export firearms from the US.

If you get caught doing that on the American side of the boarder, well we'll see you in 20 years.

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Is Airsoft this messed up that it be better to own real guns instead?
I owned real firearms first, now airsoft as well, both have their place, one for the range and hunting, one to play with.

Most of the airsoft regulations are more about import then anything, but then again I have no intention of doing that, the retailers/distributors can do that for me.

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Originally Posted by Hectic View Post
500fps AND 5.7j is a firearm not just 500fps but its just beter (read easyer less hassels) to stay below 500
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...0.html#docCont

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Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms
  • (3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:
    • (a) any antique firearm;
    • (b) any device that is
      • (d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
        • (i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or
        • (ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.
See the RCMP website uses "and", the law says "or", which are two very different things.

The way the RCMP lists it you could go up to 775fps and be legal.

The way the law says it, you already exceeded 500fps to get to 775fps and therefore it's illegal.

But apparently the law makers need to write better laws ...

http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliame...ent#bairgunstx

Quote:
b. Airguns

Clause 2(2) modifies section 84(3) of the Criminal Code which sets out regulated items that are excluded from requirements of the Firearms Act, and certain listed Criminal Code provisions in Part III.(26) Pursuant to current section 84(3)(d), a weapon is deemed not to be a firearm (for the above listed purposes) if it is not designed or adapted to discharge:
  • (i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second; or
  • (ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second.

This exemption generally applies to many airguns and other similar types of weapons that are found in Canada. There has been concern lately with respect to lightweight pellets which can be discharged by certain airguns at a speed exceeding the maximum set out in the exemption. Some people were concerned that these airguns would no longer be exempt from the licensing and registration provisions. The goal of the amendment is to clarify the exemption by adding a muzzle energy standard to the existing muzzle velocity standard.

Under new section 84(3)(d)(i), a weapon not designed or adapted to discharge a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules is deemed not to be a firearm (for the listed purposes). The intention was to exempt a weapon if it satisfies one of the two standards.

Thus, even if the weapon discharges lightweight pellets at a speed exceeding the maximum set out in the exemption, it may still be exempted if it does not exceed the new muzzle energy standard. There has been some debate regarding whether the new provision does what it intended. Some argue that both standards will have to be satisfied for the weapon to be exempt.

Because of the use of a double negative, the section seems to contradict itself when it is turned into a positive. As written, it appears that the weapon only needs to satisfy one of the two standards to be exempted. The new muzzle energy standard is also added to section 84(3)(d)(ii).
All I can say, is I don't want to be that person in the courtroom where the governments intent, or the way it's read comes into play.

Dimitri

Last edited by Dimitri; March 23rd, 2013 at 12:17..
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 12:30   #45
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Dmitri, it is "and", and not "or", as explained by the airgun fix you posted.

It is law, and interpreted as such with precedent.
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