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View Poll Results: which m4 type gun should i get
VFC M4ES-Recon/C-Tac Raptor 12 12.12%
VFC UMAREX HK 416 CQC Full trades Special OFFER: Battery/Charger included!! 25 25.25%
ICS-127 R.I.S With Crane Stock 7 7.07%
G&G Hk 418 MAX 6 6.06%
King Arms m4a1 55 55.56%
G&P Canadian Carbine 16 16.16%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 12th, 2012, 09:55   #16
kalnaren
 
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You don't need two guns. You can easily play outdoor with a gun shooting 330-340.... as long as it isn't a shitty gun.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:17   #17
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Originally Posted by georgehutchison View Post
Relax, all in good fun. I just thought anyone already owning all that gear could make a decision for himself. Really would anyone really buy something that a poll chooses for them?
Isn't it all just personal preference anyway. Should I buy the new Ford Mustang or the Chevy Camero? You pick for me.

Well I voted for him anyway.
I got my eye on the vfc but you know, $500 + $300 of gear, wife isn't so glad, I asked ASC so I can know more because I know you guys can help me alot.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:25   #18
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With the ICS split gear box you can have one gun and two upper gear boxes. One for CQB and one for out doors. They're crazy easy to swap out. http://mach1airsoft.com/site/node/464
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:36   #19
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Again... why bother?

I don't get this whole "A gun HAS to shoot 350+ to game outdoors!!" attitude. People get WAY too caught up on FPS.

I played for 2-3 years on a stock CA gun.. 315 FPS.. 99% of it out doors. Never had any issue. You just have to MOVE into the effective range of your gun. Even now, my primary outdoor gun (that same CA) is "only" shooting about 360 and I consistently range just as far as 400 FPS setups.

Good gun + good hop-up + good BB's + T/N barrel = excellent out door gun.

Spend the money on 1 gun, and upgrade it accordingly, instead of spending the money on 1.5 guns. If you can completely afford two guns then hey all the power to you and go for that solution.

Otherwise you're just dumping money into where it really isn't necessary.

Crunch will tell you his best ranging gun is his Real Sword Type-56 that shoots around 330.

TL;DR: FPS means jack shit. Upgrade the player, not the gun. No reason you can't game out doors on <350 FPS

In addition, if you're planning on doing a good mix of indoor/outdoor play, constantly stripping a gun WILL wear it down over time. Even the ICS ones which have the split mechbox.. they're not designed to be swapped all the time. Get a gun that will do what you need 90% of the time, and rent/borrow for the other 10%. If 90% of your games will be an indoor/outdoor mix, then get a gun that will do both.
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Last edited by kalnaren; February 12th, 2012 at 11:46..
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:52   #20
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Originally Posted by kalnaren View Post
Again... why bother?

I don't get this whole "A gun HAS to shoot 350+ to game outdoors!!" attitude. People get WAY too caught up on FPS.

I played for 2-3 years on a stock CA gun.. 315 FPS.. 99% of it out doors. Never had any issue. You just have to MOVE into the effective range of your gun. Even now, my primary outdoor gun (that same CA) is "only" shooting about 360 and I consistently range just as far as 400 FPS setups.

Good gun + good hop-up + good BB's + T/N barrel = excellent out door gun.

Spend the money on 1 gun, and upgrade it accordingly, instead of spending the money on 1.5 guns. If you can completely afford two guns then hey all the power to you and go for that solution.

Otherwise you're just dumping money into where it really isn't necessary.

Crunch will tell you his best ranging gun is his Real Sword Type-56 that shoots around 330.

TL;DR: FPS means jack shit. Upgrade the player, not the gun. No reason you can't game out doors on <350 FPS

In addition, if you're planning on doing a good mix of indoor/outdoor play, constantly stripping a gun WILL wear it down over time. Even the ICS ones which have the split mechbox.. they're not designed to be swapped all the time. Get a gun that will do what you need 90% of the time, and rent/borrow for the other 10%. If 90% of your games will be an indoor/outdoor mix, then get a gun that will do both.
This!!!

Lat season I gamed a stock A&K Masada as my primary. It was 280 fps. I had never felt disadvantaged compared to other players.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:57   #21
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Originally Posted by Dogsbody View Post
With the ICS split gear box you can have one gun and two upper gear boxes. One for CQB and one for out doors. They're crazy easy to swap out. http://mach1airsoft.com/site/node/464
I have seen the ICS M4's, But I just don't like how most of the outside parts are propriety and It won't be that custom gun I want, The king arms m4a1 is like a basic m4 v2, metal body, Bolt lock for easy hop up adjustment, the gears I think are SHS 18:1 and the king arms cost less , The ics is around $350 in the Classifieds I think, but the king arms is probably cheaper ( best bang for your buck)
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Old February 12th, 2012, 12:53   #22
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TBH I felt a bit disadvantaged running a low FPS setup outdoors. I feel that 370+ is the sweet spot. I have no problems running 375-ish up to 400 but once I drop to below 350 I feel at a disadvantage because you have to lead your shots and other people with 399.9 FPS setups (this is with proper upgrades (ie. Hop up unit and bucking, TBB, and maybe an SCS nub) not just noobs who have guns that come out of the box at 400 FPS with nothing else) have their BB reach you faster. This is talking about .25 and .28 grams though so my BB's go even slower than if they were using .20's.

I know FPS doesn't matter very much but there's a point for me where it does start to matter and that's when you're playing at "CQB" speeds outdoors.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 12:55   #23
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Hey, Welcome to the world of trying to decide between budget/quality/range/etc.

I would say that VFC 416 is a good go if you want to have range and the sizeto run it indoor. Of course there is some place that require you to have certain FPS for indoor (350 and under) but you can have a 2nd gearbox and just change that one. You would only have to get a gundoc to show you how to swap them and you would be fine.

Range, for outdoor I'll say hopup and barrel is the 2 thing you are going to look for if you don't want to stay on the stock one. A 6,03 is good but a 6,01 is getting your fps even higher a bit so you have to get the combinaison of both barrel and gearbox to work out to be within limit. once you get the range you like with your baby (you'll probably name it like this after a while and a lot of cash in it haha) then only a swapout of gearbos and you'll be fine.

that's how I see it anwyay but personaly I run 2 gun one longer than the other so
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Old February 12th, 2012, 13:47   #24
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what is the diffrence than the Ultra Grade King arms m4 and the King arms colt m4 metal?
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Old February 12th, 2012, 13:53   #25
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Originally Posted by L473ncy View Post
TBH I felt a bit disadvantaged running a low FPS setup outdoors. I feel that 370+ is the sweet spot. I have no problems running 375-ish up to 400 but once I drop to below 350 I feel at a disadvantage because you have to lead your shots and other people with 399.9 FPS setups (this is with proper upgrades (ie. Hop up unit and bucking, TBB, and maybe an SCS nub) not just noobs who have guns that come out of the box at 400 FPS with nothing else) have their BB reach you faster. This is talking about .25 and .28 grams though so my BB's go even slower than if they were using .20's.

I know FPS doesn't matter very much but there's a point for me where it does start to matter and that's when you're playing at "CQB" speeds outdoors.
Any of the outdoor field I've played in are not so open that people are making clean shots at the outer range of their aegs. If someone runs a highly tuned aeg with high quality parts then obviously they will have an advantage over you. That's the whole point. I know that you know this I am speaking for the benefit of the OP. But having a sub 350 fps gun with a good tightbore and hop up can go along way of closing the gap. Almost everyone in time gets more than one gun but you can absolutely compete on an even field with a stock aeg.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 14:19   #26
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Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Any of the outdoor field I've played in are not so open that people are making clean shots at the outer range of their aegs. If someone runs a highly tuned aeg with high quality parts then obviously they will have an advantage over you. That's the whole point. I know that you know this I am speaking for the benefit of the OP. But having a sub 350 fps gun with a good tightbore and hop up can go along way of closing the gap. Almost everyone in time gets more than one gun but you can absolutely compete on an even field with a stock aeg.
I bought the gear with a few upgrade parts that might help and i can always upgrade I have a near Airsoft shop

Upgrades:
Spring 110 or 100 ( got both)
Bravo Aluminum Piston Head w/Thrust Bearings
G&G 6.04mm High Precision Inner Barrel for 443mm Barrel Length
Prometheus Version 2&8 Spring Guide with Ball Bearings
G&G Hop Up Bucking
Modify Nozzle for M4/M16
G&G Upgraded Reinforced Piston
MadBull Gemtech "Blackside" Barrel Extension

Looking into a CQB Red dot sight, will I need it? or stick with the original sights?
And
How long will this battery last? Intellect 9.6v 2000mAh NiMH Nunchuck Battery
I was thinking to buy 2 but cost alot, will it handle about 4-6 hours of game play on like 3 round burst and single?

Last edited by Aldo69; February 12th, 2012 at 14:22.. Reason: Another question
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Old February 12th, 2012, 14:24   #27
Eeyore
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Originally Posted by Aldo69 View Post
I bought the gear with a few upgrade parts that might help and i can always upgrade I have a near Airsoft shop

Upgrades:
Spring 110 or 100 ( got both)
Bravo Aluminum Piston Head w/Thrust Bearings
G&G 6.04mm High Precision Inner Barrel for 443mm Barrel Length
Prometheus Version 2&8 Spring Guide with Ball Bearings
G&G Hop Up Bucking
Modify Nozzle for M4/M16
G&G Upgraded Reinforced Piston
MadBull Gemtech "Blackside" Barrel Extension

Looking into a CQB Red dot sight, will I need it? or stick with the original sights?
I'm not sure all those parts will work well together. I suggest you install one at a time and gauge performance.

I like optic, I find they allow me to acquire a target more quickly. However many people don't like them and prefer iron sights. Again this is a question of personal taste. The good thing is that you have a long long time to decide what you like and dislike. This will also change many times as you develop your style of play.


Batteries are allow about 1 shot for every mah, so you are talking about 2000 shots for that battery.

A spare battery is always a good choice.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 15:03   #28
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Originally Posted by Aldo69 View Post
I bought the gear with a few upgrade parts that might help and i can always upgrade I have a near Airsoft shop

Upgrades:
Spring 110 or 100 ( got both) -What are you trying to attain here?
Bravo Aluminum Piston Head w/Thrust Bearings Same as above -what is YOUR purpose behind this upgrade?
G&G 6.04mm High Precision Inner Barrel for 443mm Barrel Length I recommend Mad Bull barrels. Excellent quality, good price.
Prometheus Version 2&8 Spring Guide with Ball Bearings
G&G Hop Up Bucking Make sure you're getting a good quality one of these. Not sure about G&G. Match the hop-up rubber to your FPS
Modify Nozzle for M4/M16 Why?
G&G Upgraded Reinforced Piston Again, why?
MadBull Gemtech "Blackside" Barrel Extension ...errr... why? Why not just get a gun with a longer barrel to begin with?

Looking into a CQB Red dot sight, will I need it? or stick with the original sights? GO PLAY A GAME FIRST!!!!!!!! SEE WHAT YOU LIKE!!
And
How long will this battery last? Intellect 9.6v 2000mAh NiMH Nunchuck Battery
I was thinking to buy 2 but cost alot, will it handle about 4-6 hours of game play on like 3 round burst and single? Depends on how much you shoot. I've made a 1,500 Mah mini last all day in an upgraded gun.. and I know people who have blown through a 2,000 Mah large in 4 hours. There are a TON of things you can do to increase this -proper shimming, wiring, and greasing among them. How you play is the biggest factor. Having said that, a spare battery never hurt anyone. Unless you thew it at them.. then it might.
I mean absolutely zero offence by this, but to me it sounds 100% like you just want to throw parts in your gun for the sake of having an upgraded gun.

Quite frankly that is the WORST reason to upgrade a gun, period.

We used to have this little saying in airsoft that doesn't seem to get said much anymore:

"If you have to ask what you should upgrade, you're not ready to upgrade."

Aside from components that are know to fail (of which you should have none in the guns you listed) you shouldn't need ANY of those upgrades you listed.

The most I ever recommend a newbie do to a stock gun is a spring swap if needed for field limits, and a T/N barrel.

Otherwise just WAIT. Go PLAY A GAME, and SEE what you're gun needs, if anything.

It really, really REALLY sounds like you need to go to a game and rent a few guns first. Standing over here it sounds like you don't have a clue what you really want. And that's a surefire way to lead to buyer's remorse.
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Last edited by kalnaren; February 12th, 2012 at 15:06..
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Old February 12th, 2012, 15:33   #29
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ok, I already talked to my buddies and we are playing next week, just a little cqb, they have guns i can rend, and comes with hi cap and 2k bbs
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Old February 12th, 2012, 15:35   #30
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Perfect. Have fun and play safe.
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