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Long Distance Age Verification Tool?

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View Poll Results: Would You Use This Service To Be Age Verified?
Yes 23 35.94%
No 41 64.06%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 31st, 2012, 14:12   #16
MadMorbius
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There are PIPEDA related concerns with this solution, and I don't think I want to play in that space.
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what if it model after his?

Last edited by MadMorbius; January 31st, 2012 at 15:51.. Reason: typo in acronym
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Old January 31st, 2012, 14:39   #17
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Originally Posted by MadMorbius View Post
There are PIEPDA related concerns with this solution, and I don't think I want to play in that space.
Speaking of, what records are created right now? Just a note of which username are verified, or is it more involved?
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Old January 31st, 2012, 14:49   #18
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The process as it stands now works perfectly. I had to drive 2 hours to get to the closest age verifier.
There's also a host of games which people attend such as MR4 that have verifiers there, it's not hard to do and make time for it.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 14:50   #19
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I have a feeling this will be useful for this thread...

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=133329

I knew I did that for a reason!
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Old January 31st, 2012, 14:57   #20
ILLusion
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I have the following two issues with this method:

1) As a note of integrity for the ASC system: Multiple Paradox pointed it out, it's not difficult for me to fake an ID that's just "good enough" to pass over compressed web video. A couple classes in Photoshop is all it takes to learn the skills to do this. It's much more difficult for me to fake Ontario government approved ID for an in-person verification - particularly with the new ID's with layered holograms, UV text, and multi-visual aspect features. Many of these features are also raised or flush, depending on the product - and can ONLY be detected through actual touch. I don't know if other provinces have adopted such advanced anti-counterfeiting measures. I know BC has.

2) As the end user, I sure as hell don't want to be transmitting a batch of my ID's over an unsecure network, and having it stored in a centralized location. All it takes is one hacker looking to score a gold mine of personal info, and identity theft could run rampant. It is also for this reason alone, that ASC does NOT give permission for our age verifiers to record/scan/photograph the ID's they verify. The only information that we require, is the end user's forum username, their real name, their date of birth, and the age verifier's word that the ID that's being presented (in person) to them is authentic, and that of the person being age verified. Any age verifier that decides to store copies of personal ID beyond that, bears the sole responsibility of maintaining absolute security on the ID, and will have to deal with any issues that may arise from this security.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 14:59   #21
Pinard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake View Post
ASC will not be using any kind of not-in-person verification in the foreseeable future.

A simple underlying logic exists: if you can't make it out to be AV'd, you won't be able to make it out to a game.

There's a small handful of players in very remote areas, but the negative impacts far outweigh the inconvenience to a small handful of people who'll have to travel a longer distance to get AV'd.
almost every game I attend is over an hour ride from my house...
I would never have driven that far ONLY to meet a verifier..
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Old January 31st, 2012, 15:52   #22
m102404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake View Post
ASC will not be using any kind of not-in-person verification in the foreseeable future.

A simple underlying logic exists: if you can't make it out to be AV'd, you won't be able to make it out to a game.

There's a small handful of players in very remote areas, but the negative impacts far outweigh the inconvenience to a small handful of people who'll have to travel a longer distance to get AV'd.
IMO, that reasoning doesn't do it anymore.

Perhaps it's localized around here, but there's dozens of guys (new/existing/etc...) who are playing regularly at multiple venues. That number grows every month. None of the games around here (or any I've been to) require ASC AV. At many...there are AV'ers there, but it's the minority if any who ask to be AV'd.

(my understanding) ASC AV was a gateway control to access the Buy/Sell sections of the forum. It's morphed a bit to include some minor other forum section restrictions, but that remains it's primary function. And the retailer section has simply extended the Buy/Sell section.

To that end...it's no longer an effective mechanism. The cat's out of the bag...

However, as a measure to control access to the forum (a due care sort of thing) I can see how it still does that....I just don't see the reasoning tied to attending/playing games anymore.

It'd be entirely different if the games/events section was AV restricted.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 15:54   #23
MadMorbius
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There are in fact collectors, who do not attend games at all and couldn't care less if they ever play. These individuals seek out the classifieds.

I believe the system can be improved, but I'm not certain how to do so without introducing liabilities, both fiscal and legal.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 15:59   #24
ILLusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m102404 View Post
IMO, that reasoning doesn't do it anymore.

Perhaps it's localized around here, but there's dozens of guys (new/existing/etc...) who are playing regularly at multiple venues. That number grows every month. None of the games around here (or any I've been to) require ASC AV. At many...there are AV'ers there, but it's the minority if any who ask to be AV'd.

(my understanding) ASC AV was a gateway control to access the Buy/Sell sections of the forum. It's morphed a bit to include some minor other forum section restrictions, but that remains it's primary function. And the retailer section has simply extended the Buy/Sell section.

To that end...it's no longer an effective mechanism. The cat's out of the bag...

However, as a measure to control access to the forum (a due care sort of thing) I can see how it still does that....I just don't see the reasoning tied to attending/playing games anymore.

It'd be entirely different if the games/events section was AV restricted.
Tys, I think you may have misunderstood Drake's intent with that comment.

He did NOT mean to say that games won't allow players who are not age verified. I'm sure this happens, but it's fairly rare.

What he meant, was that if a player can't make the effort to go out to get AV'ed, then chances are, he can't make the effort to get out to a game either, which he SHOULD for the exact reason as you'd stated: there are tons of AV'ers at games. All the player has to do, is get off his lazy ass to get to a game to find an AV'er.

Last edited by ILLusion; January 31st, 2012 at 16:02..
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Old January 31st, 2012, 16:34   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinard View Post
almost every game I attend is over an hour ride from my house...
I would never have driven that far ONLY to meet a verifier..
I'm not AV'ed yet, so I'll put on a flame suit if I must. But if you read the threads about games, they seem alright with you showing up with ID if your not AV'ed. And if there is a AVer in the same game, it seems to be taken care of easily, all without a wasted trip to a game site.

So, that is what I'll do, once I'm prepared, go off to a game and get AV'ed. Doesn't seem much of a hassle at all at least to me.

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Old January 31st, 2012, 17:01   #26
m102404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion View Post
Tys, I think you may have misunderstood Drake's intent with that comment.

He did NOT mean to say that games won't allow players who are not age verified. I'm sure this happens, but it's fairly rare.

What he meant, was that if a player can't make the effort to go out to get AV'ed, then chances are, he can't make the effort to get out to a game either, which he SHOULD for the exact reason as you'd stated: there are tons of AV'ers at games. All the player has to do, is get off his lazy ass to get to a game to find an AV'er.
B,

It's quite possible I've misunderstood the comment...I do that often

but I don't think I mistated (perhaps poorly worded/etc...), it's been a long day. I'll revist tomorrow.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 20:30   #27
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Solution = permit a statutory declaration regarding age sworn before a lawyer/notary to be mailed in. The lawyer/notary has a obligation to confirm ID and, after the ID is confirmed, the individual could swear a stat dec that is as simple as "I swear I am over the age of 18."
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Old January 31st, 2012, 20:36   #28
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Originally Posted by MadMorbius View Post
There are in fact collectors, who do not attend games at all and couldn't care less if they ever play. These individuals seek out the classifieds.
*Raises hand*.

Though If I hand to get AV'ed today, I would have no issues doing a couple of hours each way to get the status if it was worth it.

That's why I did the market snapshops a while back, I had a few conversations with people affraid that AVinf wan't worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashman View Post
Solution = permit a statutory declaration regarding age sworn before a lawyer/notary to be mailed in. The lawyer/notary has a obligation to confirm ID and, after the ID is confirmed, the individual could swear a stat dec that is as simple as "I swear I am over the age of 18."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackthorne View Post
That can't happen in a face to face meeting
Face to face meetings, from what I understand of them, have a bit of screening involved in them. I've hear plenty of reports over the years where AVers disqualified people after asking a few cursory questions to test if the individual is a parent looking to get in for their kid or if the individual is a security risk. I might be blowing things out of proportion though, actual AVers should pipe in on this.

The problem with the proposed solutions is that it only addresses validation of age, nothing more.
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Last edited by surebet; January 31st, 2012 at 20:42..
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Old January 31st, 2012, 21:02   #29
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I know when I was AV'd the guy I met spent a good amount of time chatting with me about what gear I had, where I'd play, what I did for a living and I'm sure he was making mental notes about my demeanor. I didn't flash my ID and walk off.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 21:10   #30
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This kind of system sounds like a thing I'll be investigating in the future for PIPEDA violations.
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