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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:12   #1
DavidoftheDoell
 
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A gun for indoor AND outdoor use?

I have spent at least 15 hours reading FAQs, noob guides and on general lurking. It seems to be quite a rare occurance around here. So I'm hoping I don't ask any stupid questions. Yes I met with an AVer, I'm just waiting for it to go through. I searched for this topic but didn't find any results. I'm looking to buy my first gun soon.

Is there a gun that works for both indoor and outdoor games without too much conversion hassle? Since it's winter I'm currently playing indoor games but come summer I'll want to do outdoor as well. I looked at the ICS M4 CQB "pistol" as a possibility because of it's split gear box allowing easier spring change. Then I would just add a longer barrel and a stock. I don't have enough experience to know if it would be more of a frustration than convenience to do each time I change between indoor/outdoor. My friend tells me internals aren't meant to be messed with on a regular basis. I have seen quick change barrels, I have heard of barrels with holes to lower fps for indoor. The other solution is to buy a gas pistol for indoors and an AEG for outdoors, is that a better idea? Is it feasable to do both indoor and outdoor with the same gun? Sorry this is so long but I want to make sure I explained everything well. Thanks for your help.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:23   #2
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Originally Posted by DavidoftheDoell View Post
I have spent at least 15 hours reading FAQs, noob guides and on general lurking. It seems to be quite a rare occurance around here. So I'm hoping I don't ask any stupid questions. Yes I met with an AVer, I'm just waiting for it to go through. I searched for this topic but didn't find any results. I'm looking to buy my first gun soon.

Is there a gun that works for both indoor and outdoor games without too much conversion hassle? Since it's winter I'm currently playing indoor games but come summer I'll want to do outdoor as well. I looked at the ICS M4 CQB "pistol" as a possibility because of it's split gear box allowing easier spring change. Then I would just add a longer barrel and a stock. I don't have enough experience to know if it would be more of a frustration than convenience to do each time I change between indoor/outdoor. My friend tells me internals aren't meant to be messed with on a regular basis. I have seen quick change barrels, I have heard of barrels with holes to lower fps for indoor. The other solution is to buy a gas pistol for indoors and an AEG for outdoors, is that a better idea? Is it feasable to do both indoor and outdoor with the same gun? Sorry this is so long but I want to make sure I explained everything well. Thanks for your help.

With regard to ICS, yep, it's been discussed before... but if you've got the $$, it's definitely doable. I'd consider doing it with my ICS M4A1 14.5" setup, if i had the spare dosh. I lucked into a cheap TM MP5A4 for CQB/indoors first, so that plan went onto the back-burner.

I can't discuss the specifics of the what, where and how much to get it until you are age verified, but you can get spare, complete uppers for the ICS M4 series that range from the 7.5" SIR foregrip model, through to the 18.5" DMR'esqe M16 type upper with variations in between, and they'd interchange according to your CQB/Field/Milsim desires with a simple removal of the two pins holding the lower to the upper. This way, you could run essentially 1 gun/2 separate game platforms cosmetically and mechanically tailored to suit, or alternatively just get an additional upper gear box and use according to what FPS/limits that are called for.

I don't know if working with the M4 'Pistol' version is a good basis for that though.. it's a bit of an oddball, parts-wise, if i understand.

Last edited by HackD; January 26th, 2012 at 23:24..
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:26   #3
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in my opinion for indoor and outdoor rifles you have 3 options for aegs. aries ics and systema ptw, they all allow for "quick" fps change.

there is also a adjustable nozzle you can install into your mechbox that allows for quick fps change. someone else might have more info on these as i've never seen one in use.

also there are gbbrs which can let you change fps quickly. this can be done by switching the type of gas you use or npas which allows for flow change. i'm not a gbbr guy but im sure there are more ways to change fps in a gbbr.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:30   #4
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What's your indoor fps limit?
If it's 350fps, just run 350fps all year
if 300, look into something with quick swap spring
I wouldn't recommend a GBBR unless you already have an AEG as a backup
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:31   #5
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What are the local FPS limits for indoors? You can run a good quality AEG at ~300FPS or less outside and still wreck people's day.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:32   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidoftheDoell View Post
Is there a gun that works for both indoor and outdoor games without too much conversion hassle? Since it's winter I'm currently playing indoor games but come summer I'll want to do outdoor as well. I looked at the ICS M4 CQB "pistol" as a possibility because of it's split gear box allowing easier spring change. Then I would just add a longer barrel and a stock. I don't have enough experience to know if it would be more of a frustration than convenience to do each time I change between indoor/outdoor.
I have observed that noobs who ask this question tend to vastly overvalue spring change ability and also hugely overestimate the difference that an extra 40-50fps makes on "outdoor viability". Distance and accuracy are more affected by BB weight and hopup quality than anything else.

I have a couple AEGs that fire in the mid 350s and are 100% fine for outdoor games due to their excellent hopups and me using heavier BBs. You can do both with 350fps, EASILY. My advice is don't limit your selection to ICS just because of the quick change upper mechbox capability. It'll seem important at first but a year or two from now when you're Mr Airsoft, you'll probably never change the spring and other things will be far more important.

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My friend tells me internals aren't meant to be messed with on a regular basis. I have seen quick change barrels, I have heard of barrels with holes to lower fps for indoor.
Your friend has his heart in the right place in terms of not messing with not messing with a working gun. What he says isn't strictly true though.

A lot of guys on this forum open their guns up very regularly (I have one or two mechboxes open every week, two at the moment) and some gun doctors I've talked to advocate going into your mechbox every several games (5000 - 10000 rounds, depending on your habits) to keep everything in tip-top shape. Once you have opened up your gun two or three times, this becomes second nature, and also something you'll enjoy doing, so don't fear it.

A well-shimmed gun with quality components isn't going to explode just because you open it frequently, and opening your mechbox every few games is a great way to watch for wear and tear patterns or signs of trouble. You can easily intercept catastrophic failures before they happen just by observing and listening to your mechbox.

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The other solution is to buy a gas pistol for indoors and an AEG for outdoors, is that a better idea? Is it feasable to do both indoor and outdoor with the same gun?
You can honestly do both, and on a budget.

Get something like a King Arms M4 (going rate at several sources is $350) and throw a lighter spring in it. You'll have a great full metal AEG that you can upgrade and tweak the living daylights out of. A gas pistol is one of the best ways to bring an uncontrollable grin to your face, but it should be your side arm, not your primary. In general a pistol user will get smoked by AEG users, but you will love having one as your backup in a tight situation.

Keep the questions coming and welcome
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:36   #7
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As Devil's Advocate, I'm going to toss one out there saying FPS isn't everything.

It's great, and I'm building a couple AEGs to shoot ~400fps, but if you invest in a good hopup system, a good compression system, and get the work done right, you can successfully run a gun shooting under 350fps outdoors*.

*If you're playing an assault/ CQ role anyway

Edit: Beaten like a good Omelette.


Edit 2: As a side note from the perspective of a pupating Noob myself, unless your really really want an Armalite-pattern rifle, I buck the trend by recommending against them as a starter gun. Reason being, they are far more irritating/ difficult to disassemble then say, an AK-pattern rifle. 2 cents.

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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:36   #8
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You can always get a hotter gun later on. My first gun and my preferred weapon is a bone Stock TM M4 S-system. It shoots 280 FPS, I have a tight bore and the ultimate hop up in it. I can bring it out at any field without a worry. For Indoor the ranges are fine and outdoor just use cover to get close enough to your target.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 22:39   #9
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My old Scar-L shoot 320, more accurate than my masada shooting 390.

Heck my Famas last game shot 160fps.... still straight as an arrow while the speed held.

Bottom line? You don't really need above 350 for outdoor. getting just one gun that shoots indoor first can save you headaches all year.
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Last edited by Curo; January 26th, 2012 at 22:43..
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Old January 26th, 2012, 23:00   #10
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Indoor limit is 320, outdoor is 420 for those wondering.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 23:49   #11
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Honestly, get 2 rifles. It's a lot easier.

Personally I have a longer carbine for outdoors and haven't played indoors but I have played at a "CQC" field with lower limits. It was a lot easier running a pistol for me, even if I only had 2 mags. Either that or look into getting something cheaper and smaller. Say an Aftermath Kraken Kurz.

The only things I suggest you do is shim, regrease the gears and downgrade the spring to an SP80 or something. The internals should hold up fairly well since you're running a lower speed and aren't being as hard on the internals and if you've shimmed it properly and regreased the gears it should be perfect for CQB environments. Also the innards are usually CYMA just the exterior has a crappy plastic shell but if you're fine with that and get 2 guns for CQB and outdoors then go for it.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 23:56   #12
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Old January 27th, 2012, 05:24   #13
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FYI FPS is not the be all and end all of a good gun, it's accuracy and good seal in your nozzle and hop up. I used a bone stock King arms FAL and Galil for years for both indoors and outdoors, shooting a consistent 330fps only last year have I upgraded the hop up rubber and inner barrel. if you want the best and have the funds to do so get a PTW with black cylinder and you are set for both indoor and out. the air seal in a PTW is so tight that you can outrange a lot of high powered AEG with a black cylinder
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:03   #14
bareass
 
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G2010.... that's what i bought mine for.
range is killer, the gun is short for cqb, and the barrel is longer then an M4. to put this into terms, i'm 5'10", i can sholder the gun, aim down the sights, and pull open a door without hitting the barrel or needing to lower the gun... i found that to be a really nice feature.

the spring is quick change, as well as adjustable. i just chronoed mine and it adjusts from ~350 to ~410 fps.
and the range is killer.

now i just bought a 590mm inner barrel for it, and a second hop up, I'll post after a game with the new set up

but putting this out there... i played 2 years with a gun that shoots 300 fps and did fine. i was out ranged compared to some, but that just meant i needed to move a bit more. FPS is not everything, and you can have the best gun in the world, but if you can move around a field effectively, your gonna get hit

Last edited by bareass; January 27th, 2012 at 10:08..
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:37   #15
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Swapping springs all the time is a pain in the ass. A well tuned gun (good barrel, hop-up, nozzel, etc.) will shoot fine in the 300-340 range. Stock Classic Army guns shoot about 315 and are great out-of-the-box guns.

Here's a few other options, if you're really bent on having higher outdoor FPS and don't want 2 guns:

-A P90 with 2 mechboxes. A JG P90 is about $350, and you can grab another 100% complete V6 mechbox for around $40-$70, and have an "indoor" and "outdoor" mechbox. Swapping a P90 mechbox is simple as hell -remove 2 screws, remove backplate, swap mechbox. Literally takes 2 minutes and you're not opening a mechbox or fiddling with springs. A P90 is a great outdoor gun. I've played outdoor with a stock TM P90 before (~280 fps), worked like a charm.

-ICS L85: A little big for indoor perhaps, but has an adjustable spring guide. Again, no need to open mechbox. On the lowest FPS setting it shoots around 340 IIRC stock. Swap in a different spring and you can get that down.

-Man up and play with a stock Tokyo Marui or Classic Army gun. Playing outdoor with a stock gun will make you a better player in the end anyway.

Just my $0.02
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