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Echo1 banned from ShotShow

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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:00   #91
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The real problem with Cybergun is they are dicks for doing it in front of everyboby at ShotShow.
Cybergun maybe dicks for doing it in front of everybody at the show but if it were your investment you would do the same to stop any potential losses, they did it in public so the message can spread faster than doing things discreetly. I have no love for cybergun but in this case if it were my business I'll be damned if someone else is going to make money from something i rightfully payed and owned.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:04   #92
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The real problem with Cybergun is they are dicks for doing it in front of everyboby at ShotShow.
+1 on that!

Madbull also have to deal with the clone rail makers as well but keep out of the public eyes and between the lawyers.

They could have just taken those 5 guns out of the booth instead of showing up with FBI and make press headlines out of it.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:07   #93
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Cybergun maybe dicks for doing it in front of everybody at the show but if it were your investment you would do the same to stop any potential losses, they did it in public so the message can spread faster than doing things discreetly. I have no love for cybergun but in this case if it were my business I'll be damned if someone else is going to make money from something i rightfully payed and owned.
Wildcard, unless you have non-clone parts on your guns, I will support your statement too, but other than that , I am residing with Deadpool, because Cybergun are dicks!
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:08   #94
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I am glad you are residing with the license holders.

Are you going to do anything about clone sales at your March venue?
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+1 on that!

Madbull also have to deal with the clone rail makers as well but keep out of the public eyes and between the lawyers.

They could have just taken those 5 guns out of the booth instead of showing up with FBI and make press headlines out of it.
Madbull is a smller company compared to distributors like cybergun, being an Asian company they rather do things quietly rather than blow it out of proportion and they do have ties to the other company that cloned their products. In the end it's a business cost it's just that they are not dicks like cybergun.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:11   #95
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Wildcard, unless you have non-clone parts on your guns, I will support your statement too, but other than that , I am residing with Deadpool, because Cybergun are dicks!
Well I guess we are all guilty then because all the parts that we/I use with the exception of the Knights rail are clones of the real thing, we are all guilty of buying cloned products since Marui didn't purchase the licensing from the RS company and company like G&P, KA, CA and the rest are guilty as well for cloning a tech that Marui invented and R&D to put into a illegally cloned RS counterpart.

Cybergun may be the dicks in this case the best solutions are stop buying their stuff, don't forget being a business they have to protect their investment whether they are being dicks in protecting their investment it's not our responsibility nor is our right to complain about it. guys like Carl (madmax) have their stuff cloned without permission by other less reputable company did he or others fight about it? well if they have the funds to do so I'm sure they would, but like Morbius said trademark and pattern lawsuits are really complicated and very costly to fight. All my RS are real no clones but my for airsoft accesories, I try to purchase real ones when possible it's impractical to purchase a real trijicon acog at $3000 for airsoft when you can suffice with a $120 KA clone.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:13   #96
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Sure we are. But we're not profitting from the clones - we're just consumers - and that's the difference.
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what if it model after his?
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:25   #97
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Sure we are. But we're not profitting from the clones - we're just consumers - and that's the difference.
just trying to explain why Cybergun dick move is being questioned that's all.

we are consumers, we obviously go for the most bang for the buck but if we were to boycott cybergun for their dick move at shot against jag and echo 1 then we might as well gave up airsoft and go with RS, even in RS there are some questionable cloned product ie NORINCO
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:29   #98
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A point to consider here before you all come crashing down on Cybergun is that is was not them that shut Echo1/JAG down, it was the ISSF. The ISSF made the decision to shut down the booth and walk out the Echo1/JAG staff as a result of the lawsuit. All Cybergun did was inform the ISSF of both lawsuits (the one filed in Texas and the one filed in Vegas) with the intent of having the offending merchandise removed from public view.
I can confidently say this as I was with the business development director for Palco/Cybergun when all of this went down and heard first hand what the intent was.

Is Cybergun crossing a line? I don't believe so. When you have a license to use a specific product, you have the right, and even the obligation, to defend that license whenever and wherever it is needed.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 15:32   #99
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A point to consider here before you all come crashing down on Cybergun is that is was not them that shut Echo1/JAG down, it was the ISSF. The ISSF made the decision to shut down the booth and walk out the Echo1/JAG staff as a result of the lawsuit. All Cybergun did was inform the ISSF of both lawsuits (the one filed in Texas and the one filed in Vegas) with the intent of having the offending merchandise removed from public view.
I can confidently say this as I was with the business development director for Palco/Cybergun when all of this went down and heard first hand what the intent was.

Is Cybergun crossing a line? I don't believe so. When you have a license to use a specific product, you have the right, and even the obligation, to defend that license whenever and wherever it is needed.
exactly, when you pay for licencing to a certain products you have the right to protect your investment whether you do it in private through a fleet of lawyers or in public it is your right. If it were my business I would protect it to prevent someone else from profiting from my investment.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 16:01   #100
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Sure we are. But we're not profitting from the clones - we're just consumers - and that's the difference.
When you buy clone, you are helping the cloners profit directly. License and patent holders do have the right to go after makers, sellers and consumers as well but choose to focus on the bigger and visible fish.

What you are saying is, its OK buy illegal firearms because you are just consumers and not profitting from it??

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Old January 27th, 2012, 16:07   #101
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The real problem with Cybergun is they are dicks for doing it in front of everyboby at ShotShow.
That your point of view, but in the buisness world where this represents thousands of dollars in lost revenue, it's called turf protection.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 16:32   #102
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That your point of view, but in the buisness world where this represents thousands of dollars in lost revenue, it's called turf protection.
But in retail, being a dick means losing customers (Ehobbyasia is an example we can all relate to)
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Old January 27th, 2012, 16:38   #103
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There is a old Greek saying, "If your going to do something, do it right and you'll only have to do it once", and I believe this situation may be one of those. As Cybergun let the entire industry know enough is enough, and no one will risk Shot 2013 turning into the same thing and embarrass themselves at it like Echo1 ended up.

Who knows, maybe Cybergun saved themselves a bunch in legal fees. Which in business is always a good thing.

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Old January 27th, 2012, 17:48   #104
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There is a old Greek saying, "If your going to do something, do it right and you'll only have to do it once", and I believe this situation may be one of those. As Cybergun let the entire industry know enough is enough, and no one will risk Shot 2013 turning into the same thing and embarrass themselves at it like Echo1 ended up.

Who knows, maybe Cybergun saved themselves a bunch in legal fees. Which in business is always a good thing.

Dimitri
Yeah, it's a good thing they did it this way to save legal fees and let the industry know about it. Also , as a consumer, I won't be buying anything from Cybergun from now on and I will let my friends know about it as well. I have bought their products the past, but that just changed.

I will also continue to buy Madbull because they did not do business this way, but in a B2B way. I can't affort RS electronics sights, so I just live with my iron sights instead of buying a clone electronic sight.

Cybergun are dicks!

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Old January 27th, 2012, 18:07   #105
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Yeah, it a good thing they did it this way to save legal fees and let the industry know about it. Also , as a consumer, I won't be buying anything from Cybergun from now on and I will let my friends know about it as well. I have bought their products the past, but that just changed.
Before this thread, being relatively new to airsoft (even though I wanted one for many years), I did not know that Cybergun rebrands other brands such as ICS, nor did I know that Cybergun secures the rights to their replicas when they put the trades on them. So I'd say, more then likely if I had a reason to, I'd buy a Cybergun.

Its a business, if your as stupid as Echo1 was to go to a show knowing that the people your in court with will be there too. Echo1 either wanted to see what Cybergun would say/do and therefor should have expected what happened, or they were too stupid to realize that if your infringing on someone else's products, perhaps its best not to show them off in plain sight in front of them.

If anything, I'll be avoiding Echo1 products from now on.

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