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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:27   #1
Trev140_0
 
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Definition of "IN"

I was thinking of tossing this question out to the general forum to see what the thoughts were on players saying "IN" to a game then backing out.

My question goes as a deeper one, as many of the people who have put games on can appreciate, the games are put on by people who typically:

1) Want to see the hobby grow
2) Want to see bigger venues

I think everyone knows the idea of becoming indipendatly rich by putting games on is....well.... a pipe dream.

So my question then stands as to what people think the reponsibility is, of the the person posting "in" then backing out?

At the end of the day, I undertand there are plenty of great acceptable reasons why someone cannot make it, but are there some times when this should not be accpeted, and in fact maybe acted upon?

For many, there is a great risk putting a game on. In some cases a field may have to be rented and the game holder can be on the hook if people bail. I just wanted to see if there is a feeling from most that its not their problem and these games put on are more or less something that is the right to go to or not.


I am sure this is going to start a fire-storm or perhaps, no coment...

My personal belief by the way. If I post "in" to a game. Unless one of my family members died, the sun did not rise, or my guns broke, I WILL be at the location where I posted in.

Rain or shine.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Trev140_0; January 18th, 2012 at 11:38..
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:38   #2
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I know at least personally... when I post "IN" I'm 100% sure that I can make it without a doubt. I'm sure most people would definitely agree as well. Obviously if a person posts that they are coming, they should make every effort to, as other players and the hosts themselves are relying on them to come for various hosting reasons (game balancing and fees for example), thus they have a bit of a responsibility to show up if they posted "IN".
Of course, LIFE happens and sometimes people really need to back out for whatever reason it may be, if they honestly can't make it.. well, then they cant. Simple as that. I know I was 100% ready to go for OP: Rhino last summer, but work ended up fucking me over cause they needed me for inventory, and there was no way I could get out of it.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:52   #3
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A posting of "in"

is a contract with the venue owner/ Host

In exchange for the promise to attend and pay the game fee, the host agrees to provide the game services.

Posting "in" and then jamming out is exactly the same as "flaking" on a deal to purchase something.

"tentative" means nothing and should NEVER be posted ..

"IN" means you will be there, you have the money , you have a ride, and you are committed to attend.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:52   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev140_0 View Post
I was thinking of tossing this question out to the general forum to see what the thoughts were on players saying "IN" to a game then backing out.

My question goes as a deeper one, as many of the people who have put games on can appreciate, the games are put on by people who typically:

1) Want to see the hobby grow
2) Want to see bigger venues

I think everyone knows the idea of becoming indipendatly rich by putting games on is....well.... a pipe dream.

So my question then stands as to what people think the reponsibility is, of the the person posting "in" then backing out?

At the end of the day, I undertand there are plenty of great acceptable reasons why someone cannot make it, but are there some times when this should not be accpeted, and in fact maybe acted upon?

For many, there is a great risk putting a game on. In some cases a field may have to be rented and the game holder can be on the hook if people bail. I just wanted to see if there is a feeling from most that its not their problem and these games put on are more or less something that is the right to go to or not.


I am sure this is going to start a fire-storm or perhaps, no coment...

My personal belief by the way. If I post "in" to a game. Unless one of my family members died, the sun did not rise, or my guns broke, I WILL be at the location where I posted in.

Rain or shine.

Thoughts?
You are assuming that some people know the definition of "IN"... and if they do, that they give 2 shits whether they honor that commitment that they've made by stating "IN".

Yes, most people will take into consideration that posting "IN" isn't for just purely selfish reasons to reserve a spot.. but there is also an increasing minority percentage that will do just that, with no real commitment to attend or care for whom is inconvenienced/affected if they choose to back out, for whatever reason.

*Edit* this isn't a problem/issue exclusive just to airsoft, needless to say - it's generally tied more to age/sense of responsibility/generational factors more than anything else it seems.

Last edited by HackD; January 18th, 2012 at 11:59..
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:59   #5
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Ok, Great stuff.

So to build on what is being said here as an example:

1) Players see game and say "wow" thats awesome "IN"
2) 3 weeks later another game appears with interest in that game so player posts "IN"
3) Then bails on the first game and posts "out"

My assumption is this too, is not cool correct?
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:07   #6
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Originally Posted by Trev140_0 View Post
Ok, Great stuff.

So to build on what is being said here as an example:

1) Players see game and say "wow" thats awesome "IN"
2) 3 weeks later another game appears with interest in that game so player posts "IN"
3) Then bails on the first game and posts "out"

My assumption is this too, is not cool correct?
So not too cool. That doesn't even come close to appearing on the legit excuses Radar.

I'd suggest that by doing so, eg. if player 'x' posts "IN" on one game, then mysteriously posts "OUT" a week or so later, and then just as mysteriously appears on a list/field for a different game, same time frame - then they've just forfeited their right to post "IN" again on the game series that they originally bailed on, for however many games in a row that the game administrator should deem appropriate.

At least that is the way i'd go about it.

Last edited by HackD; January 18th, 2012 at 12:09..
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:17   #7
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The "hypotheical" example I used had a much shorter time frame than a week.

This was within minutes.

But thanks for the idea on that. I dont want to be the heavy, but at the same time this is not McDonalds, and as I mentioned, and anyone who has put these on, it is not for the fame and fortune by any means.

Just seams like there is a percepetion by some that these games are like a public tennis court.

I did not quite get it, and this is actually giving me a bit of confidence and I am not on some kind of outer planet in thinking a "in" means just that.


Side Story:
I played rugby for Toronto for 7 years, and I can tell you, if you did not show to a game, you better be on your death bed cause, the players who did show would then be on the "physical" hook.

Drinking/partying the night before? I can assure you every player tried that at ONCE. And thats all it took, as the next day was "payday."

Weird, that experience/time in my life had palyers from 17-30, all walks of life. But the one thing that was unacceptable was breaking a deal.

That would mean you are pretty much finished in the Toronto Rugby Footbal League.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:33   #8
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Quebec had a big problem with this a while back and the organizers (the main ones, anyway) have banded together and taken a stand against "chokers" (people who call "IN" and choke out at the last minute, or just don't show up).

Problematic players find themselves placed on waiting lists until the last minute (if the game hasn't filled up) or just outright banned for a season by one or all organizers (depending on what they did and how frequently -- obviously shit genuinely does happen and we don't penalize people for it).

Some organizers have also taken to not accepting "tents."

Similar consequences are placed on people who ditch games early.

In the past two seasons we've seen almost perfect attendance rates.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:47   #9
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Yeah I find it fairly annoying when people post "IN". Then they post out for something like "I have to walk my dog." Or they won't post out at all and still stay posted as if they were still going then no show. Not only are they taking up a spot on the attendance list but someone who actually wants to go 100% now they can't go. 99% of the time I will go if I post in. If you can't make it a priority to go, clear your schedule and make the time don't post as "IN". Then again I shouldn't surprised at all nowadays as many people flake out for anything and everything since they don't honour their word.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:59   #10
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I'm similar belief recently one of my +1's seemed unsure about going to Cooney's CQB game I told him, if your unsure your out, people want in this game and I will not deny them a game cause you might be able to go. So right here right now you got 3 hrs to reply to me you can go. it took 24 hrs to get a reply out of that +1 I told him too late your out. He bitched and complained, I told him 1 thing.

1. It's my rep at stake, I'm not risking it over crap.
2. Don't be stupid.


Turns out he didn't want to go cause I couldn't get his buddy who I had never meet before in too. What I'm going to bring someone who's character I know nothing about? Efffff that.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 13:41   #11
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Originally Posted by tygr701 View Post
Yeah I find it fairly annoying when people post "IN". Then they post out for something like "I have to walk my dog." Or they won't post out at all and still stay posted as if they were still going then no show. Not only are they taking up a spot on the attendance list but someone who actually wants to go 100% now they can't go. 99% of the time I will go if I post in. If you can't make it a priority to go, clear your schedule and make the time don't post as "IN". Then again I shouldn't surprised at all nowadays as many people flake out for anything and everything since they don't honour their word.
Those who've been brought up (indoctrinated?) in team oriented activities whether it be Cadets/Reserves, team sports, real part-time jobs, or other activities with time/responsibility defined parameters, are very rarely the issue with respect to this aspect of commitment.

It's the Boob-tube/Nintendo/X-box baby-sitting service generation that have been left to their own devices and whims, and where 'team activity' is easily ignored, avoided or terminated by a simple press of the reset button, that generally has major issues.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 13:48   #12
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Interesting stuff.

So I guess if there is a track record of these people doing this for whatever reason would a 2:1 rule make sense?

Say, flake on one and get scrubbed from the next 2 games?

We have a schedule of our games now clearly posted. I did this not only to give plenty of notice to any players all the way till June, but also other fields in the area of when we are not having games.

Heck, I even put on that schedule that if there are any fields in the area who want to have a day at their field to build it elsewhere to take a peak at the schedule!

So would banning for 2 games be a bit hard?
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Old January 18th, 2012, 13:55   #13
Brian McIlmoyle
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If people flake on my games .. they just don't get invited back

it's a simple system..

Anything other than a very clear "in" post in the game thread will not get you on the list of attendees.

I don't permit any walk on players.. if you are not on my list and just show up.. you won't get in.

I keep a list of every player posted in .. and I take attendance .. you flake, you are done for the season at any of may games .. that is my policy

I also publish the names of Flakers in the AAR so others can see which players are not trustworthy.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 13:59   #14
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Airsoft is a hobby not a job. I have hosted games before, and people who back out are frustrating... but real life has to take priority over a hobby for a healthy well adjusted adults. School, work, and family commitments should always trump play time. I will agree that people should be able to manage time effectively enough to not have to back out, but many commitments such as school and work don't give you notice that far in advance. If you want people to post "in" a month or two in advance, expect alot of variation. If you want people to be 100% sure, expect alot of last minute sign ups. I think it's unacceptable to remain "in" then simply not show up to the game however, and if you have to back out you should give the host as much lead time as possible.

I think your game had alot of people back out (including myself) because you were asking people to commit two weekends to one airsoft game. I would rather take a for sure game than a tentative one. I would have been able to play at your first date, but I am not going to reserve two weekends where I could for sure play at another game just to keep it as a reserve day. If youre going to host, pick a date, and do it rain or shine. If you really really dont want people backing out, ask for deposits. Just dont be surprised if you dont get 80 people.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 14:05   #15
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It's understandable to be pissed when someone backs out of your game shortly after posting IN. However, many of the guys that dropped out of your last game did so almost a month before the game's date. I feel that is is more than reasonable considering that a month is more than ample time to replace players.It would've been far worst if they dropped a week before or not show up at all w/o informing the host.
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