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Old January 14th, 2012, 21:37   #16
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Originally Posted by Amos View Post
I'm going to disagree a little on the kraken and throw out some food for though.

The tolerances on those things are terrible... It's like learning to ride a bike but the wheels wobble and bend in all different directions
gotta have patience with CYMA anti reversal latches
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:03   #17
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I agree that the CA MP5's are REALLY easy to take apart compared to TM
CA MP5's are built just like the G3 series, take the stock off, take the front body pin off and the whole thing just slides out
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:19   #18
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best gun to practice on? your own. you become very highly motivated to make sure everything is in order.

*raises hand* guilty.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:32   #19
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No kidding. Practice makes perfect. Practice on your own gun and if you can't put the damn thing back together (also guilty ) just go find a gun doc to reassemble it.

Also, if you ever happen to find a $40 AEG with your preferred box, buy it and take it apart. A $40 or 50 POS is easier to put down than a $400 ex-beautiful piece.

BTW, dumb means deaf. So calling someone dumb isn't telling them they are stupid, it's calling them deaf. And that is stupid because you read forums, not listen to them. Ok, enough of me being a smart-ass :P
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Old January 15th, 2012, 02:10   #20
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just buy a mechbox and work on it though that doesn't work too well for v2s.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 07:18   #21
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ok sweet thanks for all the help but i don't want to buy a GB shell i want the whole gun so when i'm done i can also practice my painting skills. so the original question still stands, should i get a velocity arms G36 or AK47 as a practice gun to hone my teck skill and painting skills or are there cheaper better brands for this project. but thank you guys for all the time you've put in to this subject.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 07:38   #22
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If you want something to get practice, just buy a cheapo complete mechbox and familiarize yourself with the guts. Not expensive at all.

After that, the other stuff is rather easy to pick up.

Don't waste your time with cheap guns.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 09:46   #23
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Originally Posted by surebet View Post
If you want something to get practice, just buy a cheapo complete mechbox and familiarize yourself with the guts. Not expensive at all.

After that, the other stuff is rather easy to pick up.

Don't waste your time with cheap guns.
but i heard such a good review on the gun in question.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 10:07   #24
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I think that if you are going to practice painting, what you should do is go to home depot, buy one of those sheets of plastic or go to walmart and buy a clearsoft and practice your design on that. If you do get the clearsoft, you only waste like $20, but you could probably have a matching gun to go with your future AEG.

And yeah, you'd be better off just buying a cheap mechbox and then practicing on that. If it breaks, you won't be heartbroken. My friend tried to practice on his own M4 and broke it, so now he is stuck with a paperweight and no working gun.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 10:42   #25
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Apologies to Mr. Freeze, no offense intended, but... don't get a clearsoft gun as your tech learning platform. This is a bad idea.

Those guns are much easier to gimp beyond repair than a proper full metal AEG with a decent mechbox, and the price difference is narrow enough that it's not worth cheaping out. You'll strip a threading or crack something much quicker, not to mention cheap clearsoft stuff (as mentioned above) has terrible tolerances and you'll be struggling with the WRONG LESSONS instead of actually learning the fundamentals of compression, AoE, wiring, gears, shimming, motor height, neo motors vs. non-neo motors, etc. You'll be getting all the heartbreak without any of the wisdom. Just don't do it.

For those in here telling you to start with a cheap TM off the AV used market or something, that's an exception since you'll have excellent on-spec tolerances and can easily use a wide array of standard parts, all the way from cheap to expensive, and you're not as likely to crack or strip something if you're not forcing things (due to bad tolerances).

Seriously, don't waste your time working on "cheap" stuff. Note my choice of words, cheap doesn't always mean inexpensive. The bang for buck here is important. The other thing you need to think about is what's easily available to find parts for. With non-AR guns and unknown-brand stuff, it's going to be harder.

Your best choice for learning how to be a mechbox hero is to buy the least expensive full metal AEG you can find - a King Arms M4 - and taking it from stock to amazing. With an AEG of this caliber you have very little chance of permanently screwing anything up that you can't repair, even the parts of the bolt release are available for cheap (the parts market in Canada has tons of super-inexpensive KA and SHS parts, these are both KA).

and then following a rough lesson plan like:

1) Shimming and motor height (these go together like bread and butter) until the gun sounds perfect - the first thing to do on a stock gun.
2) Analyzing and adjusting angle of engagement with sorbo and/or washers and shaving piston teeth to reduce chance of piston engagement and shredding problems as you keep upgrading.
3) Testing compression system and improving it with better o-rings / Teflon / floss mod / lubrication / tappet plate mod / nozzle swap / etc.
4) Bushing swaps.
5) Piston swaps.
6) Troubleshooting misfeeds and problems with hopup, buckings, nubs.
7) Upgrading from Tamiya connectors to Deans, soldering bullet connectors to snake through the receiver-handguard gap.
8) Motor upgrade

You want to be learning the above lessons, not the lesson where you sit around JB welding a cracked part or the lesson where you need to sand down the interior of your gearbox shell because no aftermarket bushings work because the bushing holes are out of spec... etc
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Old January 15th, 2012, 10:44   #26
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Well, think of it this way, right now you have a couple of BMWs you want to push up to Ferrari performance level. You want to get some practice in, so you're considering getting a Civic. Same basic principles apply, but if you pursue the project with the Civic you'll only end up with a riced up piece of crap that will cost you a lot of money.

Sure, it will go fast in a straight line, but none of the refinements will be there. Resale value will be shit, and in the end since you really only need to practice working on the engine you might as well just buy that and hone your skill.

Long story short, these guns are rather bleh, and the reviews come from people with no access to better stuff. Buy a mechbox to practice, transfer the parts to one of your guns after, and don't look back.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 10:57   #27
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Well, think of it this way, right now you have a couple of BMWs you want to push up to Ferrari performance level. You want to get some practice in, so you're considering getting a Civic. Same basic principles apply, but if you pursue the project with the Civic you'll only end up with a riced up piece of crap that will cost you a lot of money.

Sure, it will go fast in a straight line, but none of the refinements will be there
I like your analogy but I think this is where it breaks down. Whereas a Civic will still likely at least function, the risk with going the cheap route here is that when upgrading or messing with a very very cheap or off-spec gun is that it might end up being DOA, even after a lot of work.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 12:25   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surebet View Post
Well, think of it this way, right now you have a couple of BMWs you want to push up to Ferrari performance level. You want to get some practice in, so you're considering getting a Civic. Same basic principles apply, but if you pursue the project with the Civic you'll only end up with a riced up piece of crap that will cost you a lot of money.

Sure, it will go fast in a straight line, but none of the refinements will be there. Resale value will be shit, and in the end since you really only need to practice working on the engine you might as well just buy that and hone your skill.

Long story short, these guns are rather bleh, and the reviews come from people with no access to better stuff. Buy a mechbox to practice, transfer the parts to one of your guns after, and don't look back.
Will race you in my "ricer" civic anyday But ya I see what you are saying
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Old January 15th, 2012, 14:58   #29
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oh goodie, MaciekA commented on here, i was hoping you would pop up sooner or later seeing as how i'm talking about a gun you reviewed. so you also agree i should just buy an "engine" and work on it instead of buying a "cheap civic"? because if so i well take your advice seeing as how you have the gun in question.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 15:09   #30
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CA's are easy to take apart! Unless you don't have a CA lower that slides out of the upper...
Try taking apart a TM MP5 and compare!

Never said it was hard. Said it takes too much time.

Clearly the subtle sarcasm of an 'lol' at the end of a sentence is too far above you!
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