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Bypassing the importing laws?

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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:21   #16
Fuzzy
 
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Originally Posted by Ozone06 View Post
Just say no. Don't be cheap. This hobby is expensive. That's the entry fee. If you don't like it go to Walmart and enjoy your plastic shit.
Sigh....How is this helpful? No one said anything about importing because it's more expensive in Canada.

Some airsoft guns simply aren't available in Canada, especially in the case of niche/collector stuff like sci fi guns. If you can point to where one can buy the airsoft pulse rifle in Canada I'm sure you would make many people happy. For stuff like this, cost is a minor factor.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:24   #17
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Since the last batch of AVing has been done and he still doesn't have his tag, I'd go with too young.
I signed up january 12th 2012... I might have an appointment next week to get verified. I thought this part of the forum was free of wrongful judgement and flaming.

I want to thank everyone who gave contructive criticism towards the subject.

As for the title of the thread goes, it's more of a bad translation on my part than an actual thread about bendings and avoiding laws and such. The idea wasn't to avoid or bend rules but to abid them fully.

I had a misconception that the law was put in place to stop realistic replicas to be brought in without a license in which the Thundermaul legally wouldn't apply to. But now I understand that it's deeper than the surface/body of the gun.

In any way, 165$ for a Thundermaul to someone who wants 2-3 games under his belt before spending three times the money for a good quality gun sounded like a better opportunity for me than buying one at Canadian Tire and at roughly the same price.

Last edited by RangerGord; January 13th, 2012 at 11:31.. Reason: Fixed the price
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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:27   #18
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Originally Posted by MultipleParadox View Post
As they said ^^

A note: You don't want to "bypass importing laws". You want to know if importing a "sci-fi based" AEG is within importing laws.

"Bypassing importing laws" would be called smuggling, and you probably don't want to do that, right? Right? At least, you don't want to get caught smuggling... :/
I agree. Maybe a mod can change the title to something more appropriate like "Sci-fi guns".
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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:27   #19
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
"regular" gun has no meaning. For the purposes of import, it is either a replica firearm (or a variant thereof) or its a firearm.

To be a replica firearm it must closely resemble an existing firearm.

To be a firearm, it must be a barreled device firing a projectile (of a prescribed mass) in excess of 500 fps.

A sci-fi airsoft gun like the pulse rifle satisfies neither of these criteria. so, on it's face there is nothing prohibiting import.

If the cbsa is prohibiting these from import then I'm guessing they are using their discretion and interpretation of the laws. Or I'm missing something...
Actually...

I'll be using the Thunder Maul as an example, but my comments apply to any of the current or past produced sci-fi guns release, to the best of my knowledge, since they all use a real world firearm as their base.

Since the lower receiver of the Thunder Maul is an intact M4 receiver, it still doesn't pass CBSA criteria for release. The same would apply to a deactivated firearm in sci-fi dress.

Had the model been built from the ground up with no restricted parts this might have been different, though seizure would still be likely. Not saying you wouldn't win the appeal, but it's still a year long battle with very real consequences if you fail.

As mentioned above, even if I were to slap a Halo themed garb on a replica of an existing firearm, it's still at it's heart the replica firearm, especially since it's not a permanent modification. Therefore, it still resembles closely an existing firearm. The only thing you need to bring a Thunder Maul back to M4 spec is a partial front end and a screw driver.

The letter of the law might give a bit of leeway for interpretation here, but the is a whole slew of jurisprudence saying otherwise.

Also, the CBSA does use discretionary interpretation of C-68 as it's within it's mandate to do so.

As for the velocity you quoted, you're wrong. It's 500 fps and 5.7 joules (which in airsoft translates into 800 something fps with .20). There is also another velocity value in play here, but I won't discuss it in the newb tank and strongly advise you don't either. We can continue this via PM or in the AVed forum if you wish.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:35   #20
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In a nutshell Don't try to import guns to Canada..plain and simple,get your self AV'd and there are a ton of great guns in the classifieds..To reiterate..you CAN'T imoprt guns into Canada...are we sensing a trend here
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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:40   #21
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Good discussion. I have nothing more to add.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:23   #22
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Just to sum up in case anyone does a search and reads this thread down the road, the Sci Fi gun idea comes up at least a few time a year.

The folks in customs consider them to be replica firearms and will seize them. They launch projectiles and resemble real firearms. The very reason people want them puts them on the no fly list. the rules are left grey instead of black and white to deal with items like this when they appear.

There is no point in using circular logic to present a courtroom argument here that since they're from imagination land they should be allowed entry. The folks posting on this site don't control what gets into the country; we just use our past experience & the collective knowledge of the community to give new players advice. Point one is that those guns can't get in via loophole. Point two is a lot of them are low quality novelty items. Point three is that unless you have a full Aliens or Stargate rig you'll look and feel like a bit of a twat when you turn up at a game toting one.

The mechanics of how the hardware is imported is not ever discussed in the clear here. It is discussed clearly in the age verified sub forums. It's far to easy for someone to go off half cocked and try and order something from overseas that will be seized. Most of the big players know the score and will simply not accept your order. Some smaller shady folks though will take an order for something that will be seized. They don't care and they know that once the payment is made they're in the clear. The staff here don't need more psychopathic helicopter parents on here having a meltdown because little Johnny read something on here about ordering a gun and then had it seized and in the process lost his $200.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:42   #23
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Originally Posted by TPM001 View Post
Um.....wut? Underneath is a 6mm tightbore barrel attached to a housing containing a rubber hop up bucking used to create an air seal for a nozzle that pushes out air. Where do you think the term "replica" comes from? It's all cosmetic. So if you modify an M4 airsoft rifle by removing the entire metal chassis and replacing it with a foam nerf gun shell, IT FAILS TO BE A REPLICA OF AN M4 CARBINE RIFLE, irrespective of its origins.

It's funny how everyone thinks they're experts in the law......
I'm not saying that I'm an expert in the law, but I do actively import guns into the country within the framework of the law, so I have a good clue of how things work.

Over top of that rubber hop up and 6mm barrel is still an M4 lower in the case of the thundermaul, and a M1A1 receiver in the case of the Pulse rifle. It's just got some extra stuff on top of it to make it look sci-fi. It is still considered a replica, because underneath of all the funky body parts, there still exists a full M1A1 receiver, which is what makes it a replica.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 13:19   #24
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I think this thread is dead..the title Bypassing the import laws is a huge red flag and that is something that no one here want's to touch with a ten foot pole. I for one enjoy airsoft and I am willing to follow the laws and obtain my guns from within our borders..and 99 percent of the members on here will as well. Doing ilegal things adds more negativity to our sport and frankly we don't need that coming from our forum..we have youtube to thank for all the negative outlooks on airsoft as it is
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Old January 13th, 2012, 15:36   #25
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Originally Posted by Sandbar1911 View Post
I think this thread is dead..the title Bypassing the import laws is a huge red flag and that is something that no one here want's to touch with a ten foot pole. I for one enjoy airsoft and I am willing to follow the laws and obtain my guns from within our borders..and 99 percent of the members on here will as well. Doing ilegal things adds more negativity to our sport and frankly we don't need that coming from our forum..we have youtube to thank for all the negative outlooks on airsoft as it is
I couldn't agree more . I think the thread should be deleted to avoid any legal problems. I'd do it myself if I would be able to and please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 15:58   #26
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I just want to say I've been in contact with RangerGord outside of ASC before he joined and via PM since. He knows what's up, what's legal, etc. and this thread wasn't intended as the title makes it sound. It was an honest newbie question with a poorly worded thread title, nothing more.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 17:05   #27
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Just to help out future viewers. Here's a pic of a thundermaul



If you can't see the M4 lower in that picture, and tell it would not be allowed. Your gene pool should be stopped now.

Although there are legal ways to bring one in. that can be asked in AV'd
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Old January 13th, 2012, 19:19   #28
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Originally Posted by RangerGord View Post
I signed up january 12th 2012... I might have an appointment next week to get verified. I thought this part of the forum was free of wrongful judgement and flaming.

I want to thank everyone who gave contructive criticism towards the subject.

As for the title of the thread goes, it's more of a bad translation on my part than an actual thread about bendings and avoiding laws and such. The idea wasn't to avoid or bend rules but to abid them fully.

I had a misconception that the law was put in place to stop realistic replicas to be brought in without a license in which the Thundermaul legally wouldn't apply to. But now I understand that it's deeper than the surface/body of the gun.

In any way, 165$ for a Thundermaul to someone who wants 2-3 games under his belt before spending three times the money for a good quality gun sounded like a better opportunity for me than buying one at Canadian Tire and at roughly the same price.
The amount of money you will spend in 3 game entry fees, a bag or two of BBs, gas, refreshments and snacks will easily suck up another 100-200 bucks.

Why do I bring this up?

Because you could just tighten the budget on snacks, liquids, get some friends to chip in on gas and bring them with you, and you have an extra few bucks to bring your gun budget well into the $200-300 range.

Why do I bring that number up?

Because you can find guns in the used AV sections which will easily surpass the Thundermaul within, or within spitting distance of, that price range.

And at any rate, shipping from out of country plus duties is going to bring you into that range anyway.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 19:33   #29
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No Worries RangerGord..just don't use the words bypassing and law in the same sentence and you'll be fine....welcome to your new addiction
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Old January 13th, 2012, 19:41   #30
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Yeah. Using the word "bypass" and "law" in the same sentence is a huge red flag for authorities. I also recommend deleting this entire thread. Or change the subject line.
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