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Old December 3rd, 2011, 22:30   #1
Niloc
 
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Question Gear Help!

So I'll be starting Airsoft in March when I turn 18 and can get age verified. Until then I want to get as much gear as possible that I don't need to be AV'd for for Christmas, so then I can ask for the batteries, bb's, goggles etc for my birthday and then use my own money for whatever else I need that I didn't get, like my gun or more pouches, etc. So anyways after looking at gear for the last month or so I've decided I want the Pantac Rrv in Multicam I saw on Redwolf, but there appears to be 2 styles of multicam, http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...V_Vest_MC_.htm , this one is cheaper and from the picture looks different than this one, http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...am_CORDURA.htm which is 30 bucks more. Is this just lighting issues, or is it actually lighter/more tan in it? Will that mean I have to get the right variant of each pouch or it will not match, for example these two medic pouches are both multicam, but different. http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...ch&mode=simple There's a guy in the classifieds selling some never used mc Pantac pouches and then I don't want to get those and find out they are the wrong variant, or have to go searching to find the right variant. Plus, Airsoft GI has magazine pouches that redwolf do not have in multicam, so then if there are actually 2 variants I'm worried then that the ones at GI will not match.
So if anyone could clear this up for me it would be awesome, and then I can continue with Part 2/3 of my gear related questions, I got a lot of them!

Last edited by Niloc; December 5th, 2011 at 23:53.. Reason: Eeyore is a Grammar Nazi, no more run on sentence :P
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 23:30   #2
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 23:32   #3
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The more expensive RRV is licensed Crye multicam.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 00:09   #4
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Originally Posted by Niloc View Post
I can continue with Part 2/3 of my gear related questions, I got a lot of them!
Put it all in one thread and break em into paragraphs and you'll probably find you'll get a lot more help.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 01:31   #5
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Old December 5th, 2011, 21:34   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niloc View Post
So I'll be starting Airsoft in March when I turn 18 and can get age verified and want to get as much gear as possible for Christmas, so then I can ask for the batteries, bb's, goggles etc for my birthday and then use my own money for whatever else I need that I didn't get, like my gun or more pouches, etc. So anyways after looking at gear for the last month or so I've decided I want the Pantac Rrv in Multicam I saw on Redwolf, but there appears to be 2 styles of multicam, http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...V_Vest_MC_.htm , this one is cheaper and from the picture looks different than this one, http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...am_CORDURA.htm which is 30 bucks more. Is this just lighting issues, or is it actually lighter/more tan in it? Will that mean I have to get the right variant of each pouch or it will not match, for example these two medic pouches are both multicam, but different. http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...ch&mode=simple There's a guy in the classifieds selling some never used mc Pantac pouches and then I don't want to get those and find out they are the wrong variant, or have to go searching to find the right variant. Plus, Airsoft GI has magazine pouches that redwolf do not have in multicam, so then if there are actually 2 variants I'm worried then that the ones at GI will not match.
So if anyone could clear this up for me it would be awesome, and then I can continue with Part 2/3 of my gear related questions, I got a lot of them!
The key to happiness with Multicam is to buy stuff that is 100% licensed multicam. As long as it is licensed and legit, you'll be fine. There ARE differences between licensed stuff but they are a minor compared to the differences between knockoff stuff vs. the licensed stuff.

I have several Multicam products in my loadout:

1) Condor Modular Operator Plate Carrier (MOPC-008, Multicam)
2) Condor radio pouch (Multicam).
3) ESKI mag drop pouch (Multicam)
4) Propper ACU jacket, Propper ACU pants, and Propper hat (all Multicam)
5) 1800nametapes.com name patch (Multicam)
6) Multicam duct tape

(My M4 pouches are in OD for the moment, will swap with MC in a few months or so)

All the Multicam products in this list look like they match really really well. The matching between the Condor stuff and the 1800nametapes name patch is just stunning, I wouldn't be surprised if they use the same supplier for their materials and/or colors. It's possible you might see some minor differences if you train yourself to see them, but they're very very close.

Where you will get into big trouble is ACM / no-name knockoff Multicam stuff. The knockoff stuff is really inexpensive but the patterns are often very wrong. Usually the subtle gradients are missing and the colors are too pink, too brown, way too bright or even bizarre orange tints, etc. Licensed multicam is subtle, soft, and almost multi-dimensional. Do not mix fake Multicam with real Multicam if you can help it.

Make sure to buy all "like kind" products from the same vendor. For example, if you're buying pouches, go all Condor, or all Pantac, etc. Don't mix and match pouches from different vendors if you can help it. Same goes for pants and jacket. Match the brand on clothing items.

By the way, I strongly recommend the vest/plate carrier I'm using. My Condor gear has held up extremely well to abuse, and the color matching between it and my Propper Multicam gear is fantastic.

Out of one of the many reviews that I read of this and other stuff I've bought, The Nutnfancy Project review was among the best:

Condor Modular Plate Carrier: "All Day Armor" by Nutnfancy - YouTube

If you want to be up to your eyeballs in almost 40 minutes of Multicam gear and fabric review, the above video link is the way to go Nutnfancy also reviews some other related stuff available in Multicam, I highly recommend his videos.

Hope to see you on the field next year!
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Old December 5th, 2011, 21:37   #7
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Hi again,

One more thing I wanted to mention. One of the things I really love about Multicam is its ability to equally match well with tan/dark earth gear and with olive drab gear. If you want to surgically control where your spending will go, I would recommend channeling more of your budget towards the vest and your mag pouches, and if you don't have the budget left for stuff like say a multicam radio pouch, multicam gloves, or hat you can always still match up with these other two colors, which are often much cheaper than Multicam.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 21:41   #8
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Note also that while there appear to be "variants" of Multicam out there, there is really ultimately just legit stuff and non legit stuff. Beyond that, you have two other things:

1) huge differences in photography settings
2) the "part of the pattern" that you're looking at.

My multicam duct tape is all a single pattern across the entire length of tape, but a few feet will be the "green part" of multicam, then another part will be the "browner part", then the tan parts, etc. Just be aware that the actual pattern is pretty complex and massive, and sometimes you'll want to even consider hand-selecting the individual item within a batch simply because of which cut of the larger piece of fabric it got. Sometimes I'll cut a 2 foot patch of MC duct tape with absolutely no white/vanilla blotches on it at all. This can account for some of the confusion.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 23:32   #9
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Wow thanks for all the help MaciekA, you wrote me a whole essay! So I've been doing a lot of research into this and it turns out that ALL Pantac USA products are licensed by Crye Precision (as to why Redwolf has 2 multicam rrv's by pantac with a $30 difference, I have no idea! Unless maybe there's Chinese made Pantac and USA Pantac that has licensed Multicam? Dunno lol) Just to check up on this, I sent WGC an email asking if their stuff has the official multicam tag, just to be sure, since it looks a lot lighter than other pantac multicam products I have seen, I'm just that paranoid there's two different Pantac styles lol! Probably is photography settings as you say.I have seen that the condor multicam looks pretty good, but I've heard Pantac is a little more durable and still looks good too. Seeing that you're in Toronto, if you ever attend any outdoor games organised by BAAR out of Barrie (not too far away for you I think), I definitely shall see you on the field next year sometime after March!
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Old December 5th, 2011, 23:33   #10
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So too continue on with my gear related questions....

Was also wondering about BDU's, there's pretty much 2 in Multicam that I'm considering, the TRU Spec, or the Multicam Combat set found at Airsoft Depot. And perhaps the Propper one, but I haven't quite looked into it yet because I had heard it was made of thicker material, so would be hotter.

First of all, how hot do BDU's get in general? I cannot imagine wearing pants or a coat like top in 30 degree weather during the summer. Do you just learn to deal with it or what? So what I really want to know is which of the above is better for heat? From what I've read and seen through pictures, the Combat Set has a thin chest area material, but fades quicker while the TRU Spec TRU uniform holds colour better but looks to me to be hotter to wear. I could be wrong however, the very faded looking Combat Set coul djust have been washed improperly. Also price is not an issue between these two, there's an unused set of TRU Spec TRU uniform going for 120 in the classifieds and the Combat Set knock off of the Crye one is 99.99. So if anyone has any personal experience with these, or buddies that use them, any info would be soooooo helpful, as their isn't too much information on either.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 23:48   #11
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And lastly, I'm looking to get Magpul Pmag20's, and since they are the short type how well do they fit in the standard M4 magazine pouch? Do they fall below the opening? Do people put something on the bottom so they sit up higher past the opening of the pouch? With Ranger plates will they be high up enough to easily access? I saw these M14 pouches in a video, My Multicam/Tan Airsoft Loadout - YouTube ,(Skip to 2:40 ish) and they seem like they would do the job well, they appear to be a good size to have a large portion of the magazine sticking past the opening of the pouch to grip onto without the need of ranger plates or magpulls. But I do not know dimensions of the M14 magazine compared to M4 short type, maybe it will be too tight vertically or the pouch will be too wide.

Also after writing all of this in sections I realize, yeah, it would have been better to put this all as one at the top, because now people who could have potentially answered my questions will not look at it again, advice taken Disco Dante :P But it was my first post in a forum, so I guess I'm entitled to a mistake or two, right? :P
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Old December 6th, 2011, 00:21   #12
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And perhaps the Propper one, but I haven't quite looked into it yet because I had heard it was made of thicker material, so would be hotter.

First of all, how hot do BDU's get in general? I cannot imagine wearing pants or a coat like top in 30 degree weather during the summer. Do you just learn to deal with it or what?
I have the Propper ACU jacket + pants in Nylon ripstop, as do 3 of my teammates, some in A-TACS, others in Multicam.

The key to surviving airsoft in extreme heat is to hydrate like crazy, seek shade, take your time with tactical maneuvering, take breaks, and have everyone in the team watch everyone else for signs of heat exhaustion. This summer was a mega scorcher with obnoxious humidity. We survived it in our Propper outfits just fine, but we were careful. If you're concerned about this, one great add-on to your loadout is a Camelbak hydration bladder. Condor (and others) have Multicam packs that hold the bladders.

It's really nice to see you planning carefully for this aspect -- I've seen young first-timers out on the field in 35C weather wearing ghillie suits and suffering heat exhaustion after the first round. Heat at airsoft games can be a killer.. No joke.

With 30+ temperatures, I don't think any one particular BDU/ACU will have a huge edge over another, but the setups we have on our team did OK. Each of us were drinking many litres of liquid all day long though. Having a hydration pack will make a much bigger difference than differences in cloth, I think.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 00:38   #13
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Originally Posted by Niloc View Post
And lastly, I'm looking to get Magpul Pmag20's, and since they are the short type how well do they fit in the standard M4 magazine pouch? Do they fall below the opening? Do people put something on the bottom so they sit up higher past the opening of the pouch?
These are good questions..

I use the PMAG shorties and I love them. They're the expensive kind of PMAG, which is completely worth getting for several reasons (fitment, maintainability, durability, feeding, etc). I never really thought about whether they would sink into the pouch until you mentioned it. I throw them in my pouches without really thinking about it much.. I have most of my pouches set up with the flap "tucked in" so that you see the whole top of the mag. I don't have trouble taking them out or having them sink in too far. There's definitely nothing holding them up high aside from the tightness of the pouch itself. The less you skimp on pouches, the more likely they won't be loosey goosey..

Having said all of this, if you're at all concerned with the height issue, standard PMAGs are just fine, they feel and grip very good. I find they lend a "spacial balance" to the rifle as you're using it in battle. The shorties are loveable and have the cool factor, but they do make the ergonomics and muscle memory a bit odd if you're one of those guys (like me) who are often switching between positions for your left hand as the situation necessitates. Sometimes I grip the handguard, sometimes (if I have one) a vertical grip, and sometimes the corner of the handguard/magwell and the mag. I mention muscle memory cause I'm never looking to see what I'm doing with my hands, I'm just moving from memory or quickly touching the mag to find my position, and I find a standard PMAG always feels right in this aspect.

I'll also admit to occasionally planting the rifle on the mag when in prone position, even though Chris Costa says not to. But screw him, what's true for real firearms ain't true for airsoft... pressing a PMAG up against the hopup often *improves* feeding I've found...

Your mileage WILL vary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niloc View Post
With Ranger plates will they be high up enough to easily access? I saw these M14 pouches in a video, My Multicam/Tan Airsoft Loadout - YouTube ,(Skip to 2:40 ish) and they seem like they would do the job well, they appear to be a good size to have a large portion of the magazine sticking past the opening of the pouch to grip onto without the need of ranger plates or magpulls. But I do not know dimensions of the M14 magazine compared to M4 short type, maybe it will be too tight vertically or the pouch will be too wide.
I have no opinion on this, other than to say that if it was bad enough to go with other types of pouches I would have tried to do so now, or I would have dumped the shorties.

BTW, I've never found a good use for the ranger plates, since you can't put them on the non-business side of the mag. And I've never used them, but Magpulls *might* save you from a shorty descending. Not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niloc View Post
Also after writing all of this in sections I realize, yeah, it would have been better to put this all as one at the top, because now people who could have potentially answered my questions will not look at it again, advice taken Disco Dante :P But it was my first post in a forum, so I guess I'm entitled to a mistake or two, right? :P
Keep em coming. These are good questions. By the way, don't let this particular issue paralyze your purchasing decisions. The question of whether to go with PMAGs, shorty PMAGs, or some other mag altogether will probably actually have more to do with compatibility than anything else, in the end.. Make sure to check before buying.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 17:15   #14
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Thanks again! I'll stick to the normal M4 type pouch then, will be much easier than trying to find a different one and you nor anybody else seems to have any issues getting at them. I'll also be using the real Pmag 20's too, not just because they have a better look and feel, but the green label pmags will not fit in a Kwa Sr 10.

As for BDU/ACU, which ever I can get for cheapest I'll go with, since you and your buddies like the Propper I'll consider to buy if one comes up. Although both of the others I mentioned are pretty much local so can be picked up or mailed cheaply.

As for hydration, I was pretty much just going to bring a bunch of water bottles to the field and in between games drink one, but as I've never played I don't know how long the games are, so would you advise against this? In paintball games are like 20 minutes and you're back to the staging area, however I've heard airsoft games generally go on for much longer. If bringing a bunch of water bottles to the field for in between games works, I'll just do that, but if you think it won't do, I'll get a vertical utility pouch, it can definitely fit 1 water bottle plus it will be useful for any tools I'd need or maybe some food. Or perhaps one of those water bottle carriers.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 01:06   #15
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As for BDU/ACU, which ever I can get for cheapest I'll go with, since you and your buddies like the Propper I'll consider to buy if one comes up. Although both of the others I mentioned are pretty much local so can be picked up or mailed cheaply.
Just a note, I've ordered Propper from the US (wife's loadout) and the duties were super brutal. A bunch of places in the GTA have their stuff, Hero Surplus in Oshawa, or Beaver's Army Surplus in Toronto for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niloc View Post
As for hydration, I was pretty much just going to bring a bunch of water bottles to the field and in between games drink one, but as I've never played I don't know how long the games are, so would you advise against this? In paintball games are like 20 minutes and you're back to the staging area, however I've heard airsoft games generally go on for much longer. If bringing a bunch of water bottles to the field for in between games works, I'll just do that, but if you think it won't do, I'll get a vertical utility pouch, it can definitely fit 1 water bottle plus it will be useful for any tools I'd need or maybe some food. Or perhaps one of those water bottle carriers.
I've just done the bottle thing for now. In the spring I'm going to go with a hydration pack. It sucks to be in the middle of long game far away from the staging area and suddenly be overwhelmed with heat exhaustion.

I can't believe we're discussing this now, the way the weather is outside Planning FTW
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