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Is suppressing fire, "blind fire"?

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Old June 19th, 2005, 15:09   #31
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I usually qualify blindfire in my briefings as when you are not 'eyes on' where you intend for your bbs to travel - as a result you cannot judge the safety of where your bbs are travelling, and that is why its a bad idea.

Suppressing fire is fire with intention, and you have eyes on the area you are suppressing.

Some people take suppressing fire and make a hose out of it. There is a line somewhere between suppressing and hosing. One players suppressive fire is another player's hose, so its subjective.

The BB Bastard in me likes hosing, its good for business and very profitable. The milsimer in me hates it because it just spoils the simulation - its like everyone running around with a vulcan cannon on their backs with an unlimited ammo supply.

To some degree because bbs can travel poorly making aiming with iron sights or other sights inaccurate, people can use the bb stream to track in on a target - this is a substitute for aiming. Again, most look upon a continuous stream of bbs as a bad thing (again, hosing).

Its easy to become target fixated to the point where you do this without thinking. I consciously try to limit my rounds to 3 to 5 round bursts in serious games. If its a giggles and shits game with my friends, its another story.

Sorry, this is a digression but its all along the same topic line.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 04:06   #32
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Suppressive Fire: Firing rounds down on the enemy's position in order to negate the enemy the possibility of firing upon friendly troops. Thus allowing the section to win the firefight.

That's what suppressive fire is in my own words. I'm a member of the Canadian Forces (infantry), so this is my bread and butter.

Blind fire is how you see most incompetent riflemen/gunners fire their weapons, from either ill-training or ignorance of percision. You also see this in most (older) hollywood movies. Like the firing-from-the-hip bullshit, which can very well be consider blind firing since you have no real proper aim other than your body's direction.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 12:21   #33
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Thanks to everyone

who have replied,

mostly what I was looking for was what Airsoft players considered the distinction was between blind fire and suppressing fire.

so Just to put brackets on things here.

Blind fire, when you can not see where your rounds are going.. and /or have not aimed the fire

Suppressing fire, when the fire is aimed at a particular area in view with the desire to suppress the action and mobility of the parties under fire.
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 02:09   #34
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on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 06:49   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
As long as you were looking down your gun and aiming.
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 14:17   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
uh-huh
and if someone knows can tell the difference between dry firing and normal firing you're toast :mrgreen:
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 15:22   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?

ah... would that work with a real gun?

I don't think so... so in my opinion that would be cheating
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 16:58   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
Depends on the host, just ask them ahead of time, most hosts don't care about it, others do.
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 17:04   #39
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All it takes is an experienced player to differentiate...it's sorta like when the Garand goes "ping!". You're sorta telling the other guy - hey I'm outta ammo for my primary! :P

Although in your case if you're not looking, you shouldn't be firing the gun at anywhere...
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 20:56   #40
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On the topic of blindfire, yes, it is the responsibility of the shooter to take into consideration where theyre firing, but IMHO it is also partly the responsiblity of the foe to not "spook" the blindfirer in question. (hope youre with me.)

this happened at one of our games which resulted in a pointblank BB lip...gorey i know.

person A is shooting behind cover, ducks back.

person B on opposite team from person A runs up adjacent to person A and hides behind the same cover on opposite side.

person A and person B both unveil themselves at the same time, person A being spooked unloads BB death on person B.

Person A is at fault IMO, BUT! There could have been a different outcome if person B used more of their perception to judge..hey, theres someone there, let's NOT put my face 4 inches infront of his sights and give him a heart attack

here is a movie i have uploaded to my dinky FTP to give u a look at what i mean...

(this is a short clip someone took(think it was dman) in the 'city' at our panther field. - it could have been gruesome if the guy didnt turn around and look teh other way)

http://members.shaw.ca/silent_lemon3/cqb02.wmv
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 21:28   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
If I were the host i'd probably put that under blind-fire. Mainly because even though you're reloading there is a possiblity that there are a few BBs still floating inside your gun and if you pop off a few shots while your not looking it is blind-fire. The chances are slim but if you keep doing it it will happen sooner or later.
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 22:01   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Punisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
If I were the host i'd probably put that under blind-fire. Mainly because even though you're reloading there is a possiblity that there are a few BBs still floating inside your gun and if you pop off a few shots while your not looking it is blind-fire. The chances are slim but if you keep doing it it will happen sooner or later.
if you were out in the middle of a field shooting across at the guy...id allow it, theres no interferance inbetween you and your target for other "unexpected" targets to pop up and get inadvertantly nailed in the face when you didnt mean to shoot them. IF that is the case, then OK, sounds fine to me. If there is a lot of interferance, barrels, bushes, trees, ditches, buildings whatnot, well, then more care is needed, and lining up your sights is the best and definately the most responsible approach.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 12:54   #43
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Have to admit I've blind fired in an outdoor scenario in just that manner. I suppose it would be reasonable to "blind fire" in that manner even with a full mag if it were obvious that there were no targets or potential targets within the minimum range limits for the guns in question. At least I've thought so enough to do it a few times.



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Old June 24th, 2005, 01:09   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silent_lemon
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Punisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjost
on the topic of blind fire, suppose i was reloading and had no ammo in my gun, and dryfired a few times (not looking) to keep the other guys head down, would that be considred somthing akin to blindfire, or would it be acceptable?
If I were the host i'd probably put that under blind-fire. Mainly because even though you're reloading there is a possiblity that there are a few BBs still floating inside your gun and if you pop off a few shots while your not looking it is blind-fire. The chances are slim but if you keep doing it it will happen sooner or later.
if you were out in the middle of a field shooting across at the guy...id allow it, theres no interferance inbetween you and your target for other "unexpected" targets to pop up and get inadvertantly nailed in the face when you didnt mean to shoot them. IF that is the case, then OK, sounds fine to me. If there is a lot of interferance, barrels, bushes, trees, ditches, buildings whatnot, well, then more care is needed, and lining up your sights is the best and definately the most responsible approach.
That isn't really the case though. Considering how it's blind fire and he is also reloading at the same time, the chances of him hitting the intended target are slim to none. Which means he could end up shooting someone he didn't even know was in the general area.

It's all just speculation but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 23:33   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silent_lemon
On the topic of blindfire, yes, it is the responsibility of the shooter to take into consideration where theyre firing, but IMHO it is also partly the responsiblity of the foe to not "spook" the blindfirer in question. (hope youre with me.)

this happened at one of our games which resulted in a pointblank BB lip...gorey i know.

person A is shooting behind cover, ducks back.

person B on opposite team from person A runs up adjacent to person A and hides behind the same cover on opposite side.

person A and person B both unveil themselves at the same time, person A being spooked unloads BB death on person B.

Person A is at fault IMO, BUT! There could have been a different outcome if person B used more of their perception to judge..hey, theres someone there, let's NOT put my face 4 inches infront of his sights and give him a heart attack

here is a movie i have uploaded to my dinky FTP to give u a look at what i mean...

(this is a short clip someone took(think it was dman) in the 'city' at our panther field. - it could have been gruesome if the guy didnt turn around and look teh other way)
This is a prime example of why you should never have your finger resting on your trigger, Period. Your index should always be on the side so you can process maybe a few thoughts through your brain before you start shooting. I think that should be a rule, because I must say, I have NEVER been hit by blind fire, BUT I have been hit in the face neck ears hands you name it from players that get scared and let off 30 rounds at 10 feet. Having a rule like this would also save a lot of friendly fire aswell, think about it.

EDIT: Also, there is a fine line between concern for safety, and complaining ...
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