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Old November 3rd, 2011, 04:05   #16
XON50
 
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kinda wished the video was longer and he covered gbb pistols as well.
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 04:12   #17
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I wanted to ask him if he ever got confused which was which
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 04:49   #18
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bad ass!
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 09:55   #19
MilanWG
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Fantastic video.

Some basic/obvious stuff covered - but a great intro video for those not in the know.

I love the wall behind him - lots of really nice goodies

Travis's "knowledge channel" is top-notch!
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 10:09   #20
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Methinks I will be having another chat with Mr. Haley at SHOT this year....
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 10:41   #21
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Vid the next WW Gas Gun Night...and tell him that we'll spring for all the beer and poutine if he visits...

...and some of Jay's Bacon Jam and Smoked Bacon...
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 13:20   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krap101 View Post
I wanted to ask him if he ever got confused which was which
He has more experience with real steel than everyone on this forum combined. Twice.

I would think not.
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 13:25   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Styrak View Post
He has more experience with real steel than everyone on this forum combined. Twice.

I would think not.
That is a pretty sweeping statement.. and also not true.. you have no idea who is lurking here
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 14:34   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makinitbig View Post
I think there is a big difference between what he is talking about what average weekend airsoft really is.

I use to use my airsoft glock 19 to train cheaply in my house for the rare times I get range time with my 9mm. About as far as airsoft (truly a game like paintball), and training with live ammo are two completely different things, and shouldn't be mistaken. Kids that see this video that play airsoft, turn 18, then buy there first AR/AK go run it out in the bush alone thinking they're airsoft experience is enough will just end up hurting themselves, or someone else.
I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. Part of the reason why I haven't attended a public game in God knows how many years, is due to the lack of trigger control and awareness of where the operator's muzzle is pointed and overall carelessness that airsoft players have when it comes to weapons manipulation.

I can't count the number of times a player's stood right in front of me, started chatting it up with me and left their muzzle pointing in my face and finger on the trigger.

These are my basic annoyances, beyond guys who run around handling their guns like laser guns or upgrading them to ridiculous rates of fire.

This is the disconnect between airsoft and real guns, and also why airsoft has a negative view from many real steel shooters. They see how our general population handles our guns, and how we carry ourselves and draw a general conclusion. I DON'T BLAME THEM.

Some airsofters take it more as a game and don't care for the serious side. That's fine.

Some airsofters take it much more seriously. That's fine as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying skirmishes are bad. I DO enjoy a quick skirmish on occasion, but simple basics such as finger placement and muzzle control are basics that are simply ignored when they shouldn't be.

Thankfully, this is the exact reason why programs like TTAC3's introductory shooting programs and CAPS exists - for real world training. To push our "game" beyond backyard skirmishes with Nerf guns, and to ingrain the muscle memory to treat ALL guns as REAL guns, and to exercise the same rules in airsoft as in the real world.

This is where the connection between training with airsoft starts to begin with real world. Programs like what Brian M offers at TTAC3 has been good at combining the basic education of weapons manipulation in to skirmishes to train people to not only operate more effectively, but safer.

If I'm going to ever need to defend my house or my family against a zombie invasion, I'm sure as hell not going to rely on backyard skirmishing techniques - I'm going to rely on what I've drilled with, and I'm sure as hell going to be glad I've handled my airsoft guns, my body, and my mind as if I were handling real firearms.

With that said, airsoft is a valid tool for real world training. I've had a few real world operators purchase custom made guns for me with the sole purpose of training their draws, holstering, dry firing, trigger control and basement/garage shooting. The biggest attraction for real world shooters, is the value of time and $. The ammunition is cheaper than cartridges, and you don't need to drive out to a range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makinitbig View Post
I like that lathe in his garage!
I noticed that as well. *jealous*

Last edited by ILLusion; November 3rd, 2011 at 14:44..
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 14:44   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makinitbig View Post
I think there is a big difference between what he is talking about what average weekend airsoft really is.

I use to use my airsoft glock 19 to train cheaply in my house for the rare times I get range time with my 9mm. About as far as airsoft (truly a game like paintball), and training with live ammo are two completely different things, and shouldn't be mistaken. Kids that see this video that play airsoft, turn 18, then buy there first AR/AK go run it out in the bush alone thinking they're airsoft experience is enough will just end up hurting themselves, or someone else.
Agreed. Hence, his caveat that one should be fully aware of the limitations of airsoft guns when used to supplement (not replace) RS training.
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 18:29   #26
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kinda of reminded me of this.... no idea if it's any good tho.

http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip...%26filter_4%3D
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 21:44   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion View Post
I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. Part of the reason why I haven't attended a public game in God knows how many years, is due to the lack of trigger control and awareness of where the operator's muzzle is pointed and overall carelessness that airsoft players have when it comes to weapons manipulation.

I can't count the number of times a player's stood right in front of me, started chatting it up with me and left their muzzle pointing in my face and finger on the trigger.

These are my basic annoyances, beyond guys who run around handling their guns like laser guns or upgrading them to ridiculous rates of fire.

This is the disconnect between airsoft and real guns, and also why airsoft has a negative view from many real steel shooters. They see how our general population handles our guns, and how we carry ourselves and draw a general conclusion. I DON'T BLAME THEM.

Some airsofters take it more as a game and don't care for the serious side. That's fine.

Some airsofters take it much more seriously. That's fine as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying skirmishes are bad. I DO enjoy a quick skirmish on occasion, but simple basics such as finger placement and muzzle control are basics that are simply ignored when they shouldn't be.

Thankfully, this is the exact reason why programs like TTAC3's introductory shooting programs and CAPS exists - for real world training. To push our "game" beyond backyard skirmishes with Nerf guns, and to ingrain the muscle memory to treat ALL guns as REAL guns, and to exercise the same rules in airsoft as in the real world.

This is where the connection between training with airsoft starts to begin with real world. Programs like what Brian M offers at TTAC3 has been good at combining the basic education of weapons manipulation in to skirmishes to train people to not only operate more effectively, but safer.

If I'm going to ever need to defend my house or my family against a zombie invasion, I'm sure as hell not going to rely on backyard skirmishing techniques - I'm going to rely on what I've drilled with, and I'm sure as hell going to be glad I've handled my airsoft guns, my body, and my mind as if I were handling real firearms.

With that said, airsoft is a valid tool for real world training. I've had a few real world operators purchase custom made guns for me with the sole purpose of training their draws, holstering, dry firing, trigger control and basement/garage shooting. The biggest attraction for real world shooters, is the value of time and $. The ammunition is cheaper than cartridges, and you don't need to drive out to a range.



I noticed that as well. *jealous*

Why I switched to punching paper full time lol. Airsoft was fun, but felt like my money was better utilized taking rifle, and handgun courses in the States, and Canada. Airsoft will always have a place in my heart, and I will probably play again, especially after seeing how cheap the guns are now, with the ease of access compared to when I played two years ago buying my first second hand TM M4. I went and checked out a GBB M4, VERY cool to say the least.

Travis should make a video on addressing a problem a lot of people in the real steel community have with airsoft players. People should spend less time on they're kit, and more time on they're bodies, health, and overall well being. Break the stereotype of a bunch fat bodied know it all wannabes playing guns.

And I always wondered how successful Travis really was, I imagine most of the stuff in his gun room were freebies lol. His house looks pretty cool to say the least. Him and my buddy who lives in Florida were best friends in High school. Played on the same football team, fu**** people up at house parties, were climbing buddies. I was invited to a free private shoot with him in Orlando last month, couldn't come up with the money, going to regret that one for life... :banghead:
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Old November 16th, 2011, 22:14   #28
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Pretty sure the guys doing CQB training were using airsoft. Note the paintball masks. Some clips were used in Travis' airsoft video. Disruptive Environments - YouTube
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Old November 16th, 2011, 22:24   #29
MilanWG
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Those are stim-rounds being used:

http://www.itstactical.com/training/...ironments-aar/

"Utilizing UTM (Ultimate Training Munitions) and role players added the realism necessary to properly train and progress from a crawl to our final dynamic force-on-force movements throughout the objective."

"I’ll say that this was the first time throughout the course I’d been hit with a 375 fps 5.56 UTM round and I definitely felt it on my thigh after the adrenaline of the FTX wore off."
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Old November 16th, 2011, 23:06   #30
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ah thanks for the correction milan. sorry about the misinformation - jumped the gun as I was excited and hopeful for the practical implementations of airsoft
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