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Old September 1st, 2011, 15:57   #16
Short Round
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anphelproject View Post
everyone chonos with .25s so it is a level field.
I have no idea where you play but every game I've gone to people chrono'd with 0.20s
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Old September 1st, 2011, 16:19   #17
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That's completely moronic and defeats the purpose of chronying.

As others have explained, it amounts to saying "The speed limit is 100 and you're driving over that limit at 150kph, but we'll just measure your speed in MPH instead so you're still under 100."

Whatever field that is needs to pull their head out of their ass and unfuck themselves.




The original limits, back in the day, came more from trial and error
LOL...the Kph vs. Mph is a great analogy.

I did think the original limits were set arbitraily based on "ouch" levels and not having to rebuild guns all the time...but couldn't say for sure.

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Originally Posted by anphelproject View Post
First thank you to those who gave information around why FPS is what it is. and at no point in time did i feel I asked about people political opinion on fields....

I dont see how this is cheating nor is it moronic, everyone chonos with .25s so it is a level field. it is the exact same as a field that says you must chrono with .12 as long as the messurement that each person is being judged by is the same then there is no issue.

but thank you to those who posted and explained why .2 are the measurement system that is in place. I will change out the springs as that seams to be what most have said that were helpful rather then bashing fields.

and as for the fields, I believe that both flagswipe and Adrenaline use .2 to measure.

I also have read some fields will allow for snipers to go to 450 even read one field 500....
That bit wasn't in your first post...my assumption, my bad. Still...to be so fixated on being under a specific number by changing the BB weight is just silly.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 16:21   #18
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Originally Posted by anphelproject View Post
I dont see how this is cheating nor is it moronic, everyone chonos with .25s so it is a level field. it is the exact same as a field that says you must chrono with .12 as long as the messurement that each person is being judged by is the same then there is no issue.
Then you completely fail to understand the .20g @ 400 FPS limit.

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Originally Posted by FoxhoundNB View Post
Because it isn't about a level playing field. It's about safety. shooting 400 with .25s is a lot more energy and potential for injury that shooting 400 with .20s
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Old September 1st, 2011, 16:28   #19
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I'm would caveat the safety by staying under 400fps w/0.20's....

It really does depend on who you're playing with. For some games we end up playing at, "keep it somewhere under 500fps"...for the odd one it's, "meh, whatever you're using". For many of the more memorable ones it was a 450 cap. All of those have been with known shooters...everyone knows everyone else well...there's lots of maturity, respect and discipline going on.

For general public games...400 is fine. And for indoors...350fps is (IMO) too stiff...I'd rather see 290-300 with ZERO min engagement ranges. 400 in a tight environment is just plain painful.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 16:33   #20
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0.20g @ 400 fps = 1.49 joules

0.25g @ 400 fps = 1.86 joules

0.25g @ 1.49 joules = 358 fps
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Old September 1st, 2011, 16:44   #21
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Originally Posted by mas_oyama View Post
By the way, did you know that an air gun that shoots over 500fps is considered a firearm in canada? I wonder what happens with the different BB weigths though... 500 with .2 is only 408 with .3... is it considered a firearm only when you shoot .20? even though it has the same energy??
Over 500fps AND 5.7 joules.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 16:54   #22
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Which equal 720 fps for a 0.20g BB.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 17:53   #23
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I think the "old addage" saying 500fps = firearms comes from (and is true for) the pellets guns.

Considering most common .177 lead pellets are 7.8grains and above; 7.8 grains at 500fps = ~5.8 joules
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Real life comparison,

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Old September 1st, 2011, 18:11   #24
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I've pretty much abolished the Chrony

at my games ( except for indoors )

For outdoor play I don't Chrony .. and set the field limit at "less than 500 please"

Indoors.. I have a limit of 350.. and it's getting harder and harder for new players to comply, Most new guns come 420 out of the box .. and many new players lack the skill or connections get the FPS lowered..

I'd rather see people shooting at 300 indoors .. but people are struggling to get it down to that. It used to be that the FPS standard was the Japanese 2 joule limit.. which was about 280 fps.. most guns came stock at that limit and were ideal for indoor play.

With the advent of the proliferation of many Chinese brands and the opening up of the legal import for unregulated firearms most people's first gun is 430 fps out of the box, Which not many years ago would be considered a "hot gun"
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Old September 1st, 2011, 18:20   #25
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It would be nice to see more importers offering spring swaps with their AEG sales for that very reason Brian.
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 12:21   #26
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It would be nice to see more importers offering spring swaps with their AEG sales for that very reason Brian.
many did .. but it turned out the consumers did not value this service and would not pay for it.
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 13:22   #27
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I spoke with one importer re. that specific topic. He wanted to know what was involved (time, effort, resources) to downgrade things before they left his hands because he was quite concerned about some new uninitiate buying one and hurting someone at a game.

It would have been massively more simple for him to simply receive and sell the items. Instead he opted to buy additional springs and pay for local labour to swap out, function test and chrony each item. PITA to be sure.

Anyways...that was a thankless endeavor. Those that wanted a sub 400 FPS didn't think anything of it....and everyone else just shat on him for his "audacity" to "compromise" a factory gun.

So....many retailers don't bother. And here are the results....

Pointed example...some idiot bought a new rifle for a sub350 indoor game. Just got it. Shot the first couple of games with it before someone made the host chrony. Bang, bang....his fresh out the box rifle was shooting 470fps. Sweet...that must have been why it was shooting through peoples clothes....
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 14:14   #28
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I kind of agree though. Is a retailer just gonna rush through the job to get as many guns downgraded as quickly as possible? Is that retailer even qualified to do the job? (I can think of at least one retailer I wouldn't want touching my mechbox).

It's the host's responsibility to chrony guns, specially of new people who are an unknown factor and are potentially fielding a stock chinese gun shooting over 400.

And it's the owners' responsibility to either downgrade their gun, find a friend to do it for them or take it to a qualified gundoc to get it done.

But I don't think that's a burden the retailer/importer should carry, specially if he's going to charge more for it (maybe he's paying for a qualified tech to get the job done properly/professionally) and some other retailer will just offer stuff for that much cheaper and not downgrade -- the hot guns will still be on the market and that other retailer just gets screwed in the end for offering the downgrade. Worst case maybe offer it as an option.
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 14:24   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m102404 View Post
I spoke with one importer re. that specific topic. He wanted to know what was involved (time, effort, resources) to downgrade things before they left his hands because he was quite concerned about some new uninitiate buying one and hurting someone at a game.

It would have been massively more simple for him to simply receive and sell the items. Instead he opted to buy additional springs and pay for local labour to swap out, function test and chrony each item. PITA to be sure.

Anyways...that was a thankless endeavor. Those that wanted a sub 400 FPS didn't think anything of it....and everyone else just shat on him for his "audacity" to "compromise" a factory gun.

So....many retailers don't bother. And here are the results....

Pointed example...some idiot bought a new rifle for a sub350 indoor game. Just got it. Shot the first couple of games with it before someone made the host chrony. Bang, bang....his fresh out the box rifle was shooting 470fps. Sweet...that must have been why it was shooting through peoples clothes....
470 indoors sounds like the good ol' days of Canadian airsoft...... most host/field that choose to waive the 400fps w/.20 has never been shot upclose with a sub 450fps gun and anyone who suggest the result of a .25bb impacting flesh is the same as a .20 so that majority of the new players can play without downgrading is a retard that have no business owning an airsoft gun much less hosting a game. 350fps at close range is damaging enough, heck I've seen a stock Marui 280fps knock out some one's teeth at close range (10ft).

Airsoft is a shooting sport/hobby and as such there are risk like many other sports and hobbies but there are limits to what one expect as risk, running around shooting each other with a near firearm fps limits is a risk many of us are not willing to take especially with trigger happy nubs, besides the fact that anything past 400fps in an AEG or GBBR are pretty much a crap shoot when it comes to accuracy and reliability.
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 16:00   #30
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370 FPS CQB put a BB directly into my bicep...

Food for thought.
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