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Degradation of Civility between players

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Old August 22nd, 2011, 14:53   #1
Brian McIlmoyle
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Degradation of Civility between players

As a game Host I see a lot of payers engaging in this activity from the position of a Third Party Observer.

And I have observed over the past years a general Degradation of Civility between players.

Players are just as apt to flip their opponents the bird when hit as to call out a hearty "nice Shot!"

Instead of thinking the best of people they think the worst.

No one seems to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

If they seem to not take what looks like a good hit.. they are a "asshole cheater"

We engage in a game that has at it's root the concept of honestly and fair play , but it seems that most people believe that they are the only "honest Player" at the game and everyone else is out to cheat.

I hate to see people calling other people "cheaters"

But it's worse to see people doing nothing about it but whining.

As players we all have a duty to protect the integrity of this game.

We have only 2 things that we can do to meet this goal.

1. give your friend the benefit of the doubt ( and there is lots of room for doubt that any shot will hit or that any shot will be felt )

2. take action when we witness the underpinnings of our game compromised.


It is utterly useless to complain about "cheating" at games in the after action report.. If you honestly believe that people were cheating and you did nothing about it. You are more to blame than the so called "cheater"
if you don't take action you condone it, if you condone it then you likely do it.

So at the end of the day to whine about Cheaters but do nothing about them means that you are the cheater and you are just whining so no one suspects you.

If you want a better game.. it starts with you. Giving your friends the benefit of the doubt and in the face of no doubt , taking action.

So what do you do if you suspect cheating.

1. Call OUT on yourself.. ( you can't resolve this in game)
2. Walk over to the offending player and introduce yourself and ask them their name.
3. ASK them if they felt the hit suspected
4. Tell them what you saw

In most cases the person will apologize and say they legitimately did not feel the hit and concede that they are hit and walk off with you.

In some cases the person will disagree in which case you must escalate this to game control. Both of you should go to game control and let them sort this issue out.

If the person refuses to go to game control. Record the person's name. and you go to game control to make a formal complaint.

Also, treat every player with respect and as a person who is your friend.. name-calling and being a jerk just makes things worse.

Assholes eventually get squeezed out of this game.. but it's getting harder to tell who they are when everyone is all acting so badly.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 15:54   #2
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When I played in the early '90s, it was a progression on paintball, mainly from the realism perspective (engagement distances, equipment, etc.). We were - for the most part - honest about our hits because we knew that the game was driven based on the Honour System. Also, there weren't many of us playing back then - a large game was 20 bodies on the field, whereas a typical game was 4-8.

Times have changed and airsoft has gotten much greater exposure. In recent years (via heresy) the consensus is that the "quality" and "civility" of players has degraded. I haven't seen this yet, though I've seen my share of hot-heads this season. I think part of the reason for this feeling of degradation is that more people are entering the sport, but are coming from the perspective of video games (CoD, MoH, ArmA, take your pick), where "dying" is something to avoid at all costs, even if it means "glitching" or "cheating" at the game. They feel they must "stay in the field" at all costs, and being sent back to respawn affects their "kill streak".

Guess what - the game doesn't work that way.

The game has rules, but the rules are all based on the Honour System. The system doesn't favour cheaters or folks looking for loopholes (e.g., the recent sniper MED loophole to challenge a mercy). The rules are there so everyone plays on a level field. It comes down to personal integrity/honour, willingness to take the risk, and living with the consequences. The game is as much about personal responsibility as team responsibility.

A hit is a hit is a HIT. Suck it up. Call yourself out. Recognize that you're not always going to be lucky, or fortunate, or more accurate, or faster on the draw. That you may just be in the wrong place at the right time. That hindsight is 20/20, and foresight is often a clusterfuck. Recognize that your BBs will veer, that rounds may hit and go unnoticed, that people DO MAKE MISTAKES.

And then, shake hands and move on.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 16:34   #3
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I've been cussing at other players for years.

Usually though, it's more like:

"I got you now you bastard!!"

or

"Stand up and fight like a man" (I've actually gotten a few kills that way).

or

"You got me, asshole!!"

None of it is mean-spriited, I just cuss like a German truck-drivin' sailor.

I have on occasion caught guys who ignored a double-tap intentionally, and I advised them to call themselves out or they'll get the rest of the mag. That is usually enough.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 16:56   #4
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I never call somebody out for not calling a hit, just shoot them more in a different spot.
Everybody is getting more and more gear to complete a look they are going for, and this means that there are more and more spots that you can hit them and they will not feel it. If they have some fancy headset or are in a fire fight, they might not hear the hit either.

I always give other player then benefit of the doubt (unless I can obviously tell that they are ignoring hits) because I am sure that there have been times where I was caught up in a moment, listening to radio chatter all mixed in with the noise of a running mechbox or GBBR, and I have not felt or heard a BB hit my gear.

It happens.
Its unfortunate, but it cannot be helped.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 17:00   #5
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I noticed that some player talk too much on the field.
Take your hits, call hit and lay dead silently on the ground with a red flag visible.
Comments ruin the game IMO.
If a player don't call hit, than by all mean shoot him untill he drop. Just like in the real war.

No offence Mcguyver, but I hate it when people comment on the field. IMO, that's for the AAR.

If there is a misunderstanding, then resolve it on the spot in a civil and polite manner.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 17:05   #6
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I've been noticing this over the past couple of years. Reason #3 I hardly play anymore.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 17:09   #7
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Interesting that this topic comes up. I have found that 99% of the folks I have played with are more than happy to call their hits, play fairly, and respect the rules and other players. The other 1% usually are not intentionally ignoring any of the above. A prime example happened yesterday when I was hitting a player on his helmet with multiple shots. I started to get a bit frustrated as I was watching bb's ricochet off of his head when the referee let him know he was getting shot up. It became quite obvious that he wasn't being a dickhead, but just couldn't feel the hits and with all the bb's flying didn't know he was being hit. The gent called himself out and left the field without complaint. Have yet to run into an out and out cheater, although I am sure they are out there.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 17:12   #8
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Outstanding post Brian

I dropped an impact tornado genade at some guys feet behind a door during Rhino and he preceded to tell me that since he "didn't feel it" it didn't count and promptly shot me in the face. Was not happy but took my hit and respawned. Am a firm believer in what goes around comes around so I have no doubt that he will get his (and propably whine like a bitch about it).

At the end of the day it's a game and if you play agressively your going to die more than you kill, and if you camp your going to die. You dont need stroke someone else's ego on how they killed you but do the right thing and then get back in the game.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 17:24   #9
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I dropped an impact tornado genade at some guys feet behind a door during Rhino and he preceded to tell me that since he "didn't feel it" it didn't count and promptly shot me in the face.
Thats unbelievable!

Should have been brought up with game staff IMO : /
Certinly an attitude I do NOT want to play with.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 17:58   #10
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... but why does it always take a level headed, common sense post like Brian's to bring out the sportsman-like comments in people. It's obvious that respect given, gets respect. It's obvious there is an in-game process to resolve these thing (it's been there for years). It's obvious you should reward some poor fucker who's been sitting all day in the field, getting stung and bitten with a hit... if it hit you... if you even SUSPECT that he's hit you. Wouldn't you want the same?

Just like Rhino, and now HotBox... I think that there is the potential for some real good to come out of these games. I'm looking forward to more and more of these MilSims.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 19:02   #11
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this post made me real happy to see that ppl are aware of whats going on and are completely ( more or less ) willing to resolve issues regarding a hit

thank you very much for posting this
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 19:06   #12
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Many times I saw my shots going straight but what they really do once you lose sight of them is curve SHARP. They look to the shooter as straight but spin to the side at the last second.

Been on the giving and recieveing end of it.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 19:08   #13
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I've definitely had more good experiences with this than bad. At Hot box, there was really only 1 close to frustrating time. I shot a guy a few times, and watched them clearly hitting him. He stopped, looked around, then started to run away. I shot him again and he finally called himself out. I took it to assume he just didn't feel the initial hits and just heard gunfire.

I actually hilariously ran into Arnold in building 2, just before the no-respawn phase of Hot Box. He came up to me pointing in the direction of my team telling me there was a guy there. I looked at him for a second and said "But I'm not on your team." And took a few shots at his legs before he turned and got me in the chest. I took the hit, but pointed out that I tagged him in the leg as well. He said he didn't feel it, then looked down at his thigh pocket seemingly remembering the big bulge in it, looked like a book maybe. Said he probably just didn't feel it and took the hit as well. We laughed about him being confused by my multicam looking green and we both headed back to respawn. Definitely made me more respectful of him and it was great to see that kind of sportsmanship despite being an "enemy".

But as a few have pointed out, for the most part it's good, aside from the few hot heads here and there.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 20:08   #14
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Originally Posted by whisper_kill View Post
... but why does it always take a level headed, common sense post like Brian's to bring out the sportsman-like comments in people. It's obvious that respect given, gets respect. It's obvious there is an in-game process to resolve these thing (it's been there for years). It's obvious you should reward some poor fucker who's been sitting all day in the field, getting stung and bitten with a hit... if it hit you... if you even SUSPECT that he's hit you. Wouldn't you want the same?

Just like Rhino, and now HotBox... I think that there is the potential for some real good to come out of these games. I'm looking forward to more and more of these MilSims.
+1
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 12:47   #15
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Since we are a pretty small gaming group here on the Vancouver Island we haven't had many problems. We all call hits, hell I've called myself out on a fluke riccoche just because I felt it through my gear. When I called hit the shooter was scratching his head lol. But in our community if your going to cheat there isn't anywhere else to play, so it's been pretty good. I've never had to tell someone to leave, or as a group been pissed at some dude because he won't call his hits. But it is unfortunate that this happens as it just wrecks the game for everyone.
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