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Old June 29th, 2011, 14:57   #16
THe_Silencer
 
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Originally Posted by Soldier Of Misfortune View Post

P.S. 'THe_Silencer'... Saying you learned your tactics from video games and videos online, I pray, absolutely PRAY, is a troll move. Otherwise, you just prove why we get labelled toons, lol.
You think I'm trolling because I was never taught how to use the bolt catch for w/e reason and I took the initiative to learn it myself, thus making me a more efficient soldier? I'm afraid your prayers were unanswered. I had no firearms experience before I joined the army, thus the functionings of the C7 were all alien to me. And who's calling who toons? Americans labeling Canadians? Full timers labeling reservists? North Korean Special Forces labeling me? I work for a supply battalion, of course our combat ability will not be as deadly the Marine Corps, sorry to disappoint you.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 16:05   #17
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Originally Posted by Soldier Of Misfortune View Post
As Skeletor said though, you learn and need to know more in modern warfare other than speed reloads.
interesting! what would be the most important other things ?

regarding this marine's experience, were dump pouches introduced later? I also remember that at that time military rigs were pretty oldschool, was this person wearing a plate carrier with pouches or a belt with pouches and some armored vest?

are trauma plates on the sides of the chest a way to go on using the bladed stance? does that stance make any sense in actual combat?
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Old June 29th, 2011, 17:17   #18
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interesting! what would be the most important other things ?
Lots of things, medical kit/training, fireteam/section/squad movement and Platoon/Coy, learning how to call in different types of fires, ie ECAS and Mortars, Arty, etc. Communication, etc.

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regarding this marine's experience, were dump pouches introduced later? I also remember that at that time military rigs were pretty oldschool, was this person wearing a plate carrier with pouches or a belt with pouches and some armored vest?

I don't know when dump pouches became popular, but probably later on. I've seen alot of pics of Marines in Helmand Province, Afghanistan with dump pouches. But they are usualy carrying water and kit in the pouch.

Plate Carriers weren't issued out to standard troops till the last couple years, first Marines then the US Army, etc. The Marine would have worn a IBA and most likely with a FLC over top.


Why the questions on what this Marine was wearing and dump pouches?
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are trauma plates on the sides of the chest a way to go on using the bladed stance? does that stance make any sense in actual combat?
Kevlar plates aren't really on the side of the chest/arm pit area as that would restrict movement, they are a bit lower. I guess around 2005/06, maybe later? Different body armour came out, like the IOTV/MTV, etc and added side plates, and different attachments, etc but with that proctection it added a lot of weight and loss of mobility. Now the push is on weight reduction so plate carriers are issued.

Even with side plates, you will still want to square off to the front when you are fighting, at least in closer ranges, especially in CQB type stuff. Just because you have side plates doesn't mean parts of the body aren't exposed.

As for the blade stance he talked about, IMO I still aim like that for shooting at longer distances, but anything closer I square off to the target as best as possible and use cover when available.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 18:04   #19
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I'm glad to hear it.
I did not mean offence. I'm just very suprised that it was not part of basic trainning.
Familiarization with the C7 on Basic Military Qualification is meant to teach recruits how to safely operate the rifle on a static range. Straight from the "PAM", there is very little if any focus on what to do in a combat/time is life situation. As already noted, you don't really learn more combat geared weapon manipulation unless you're in a combat arms trade and at the individual unit level.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 20:48   #20
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If I recall correctly, (it's been a long time since I've done PAM drills) The bolt catch IS part of the reload drills. So that's what is taught in basic. "Strike the Bolt Release" I believe is the phrase that's used.

the Current CF Gunfighter package is great; I believe all soldiers who leave the wire are required to undergo a certain amount of Gunfighter training. I know passing the PWT 4 (instinctive shooting) was the requisite for us and our attachments. (Battlegroup tour) I don't believe as a whole we practice shooting enough, but that's a whole other topic.

The biggest constraint on "speed reloads" and such is that often in those videos you see their kit is optimized in some way to make the reload easier (often not having the magazines fully seated in the pouches) so that in real life, reloads become a much more drawn out affair. I can approach the times that buddy in that video could with the reload, but when I load my rig up with 10 Magazines, 12+ 40mm rounds, 5L of water, IFAK, TCCC, NVGs, Pistol...(that was what I carried overseas) stuff begins to get harder to take out. Reloading is something we do from cover. Always. As soon as my bolt locks to the rear my reaction is to drop. I rely on buddy on my left and right to keep an eye on the baddie while I throw a new mag in.

One last point, ref using the bolt catch versus the charging handle; when you get stressed to the level of being in the Orange/Red (such as in combat) your fine motor skills are greatly reduced. As a result, hitting that bolt catch can actually be really difficult. What we do is make it so that using the cocking handle at all times is pure muscle memory. The time it adds to the reload is NEGLIGIBLE. You do it in the same motion as seating the new mag.

/rant

Sorry.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 21:02   #21
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I distinctly recall being taught to use the bolt catch on reloads, back in 1990.

At some point, it was determined that using the bolt catch, although faster, was not as reliable as using the charging handle as it could result in a stoppage. So I guess someone decided to stop teaching it.

I remember the old drill...it was mag out, new mag in, bolt catch, forward assist.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 22:10   #22
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The basic CF drills do teach to use the bolt catch on reloads. Gunfighter and other drills use the cocking handle for above reasons

I have the PAMs on my computer(did PLQ a couple months ago, so I have them all)

Quote:
Immediate Action. Explain and demonstrate with the class imitating. If the rifle fails to
fire or stops firing the immediate action is to cant the rifle to the left and look in the ejection port
at the position of the bolt:
a. If the bolt is at the rear -
(1) Check for an empty magazine and change magazines.
(2) Operate the bolt catch and push the forward assist assembly.
(3) Re-aim and continue firing.
And PWT 4 Gunfighter
YouTube - ‪Canadian Forces Gunfighter Shooting Package‬‏

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Old July 4th, 2011, 00:39   #23
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Originally Posted by MadMorbius View Post
I distinctly recall being taught to use the bolt catch on reloads, back in 1990.

At some point, it was determined that using the bolt catch, although faster, was not as reliable as using the charging handle as it could result in a stoppage. So I guess someone decided to stop teaching it.

I remember the old drill...it was mag out, new mag in, bolt catch, forward assist.
What he said... Initial training on the C7 was all bolt catch and double bump the FA with every reload.

by 92--- the use of the Bolt Catch was loosing out to always using the Cocking handle.. rationale was that it was one process.. to initial charge and recharge .. and use of cocking handle was also 2nd action in all IA drills ( after looking at eject port)

One action that works for all circumstances is better than 2 actions .. one for initial load and one for reload... Bolt catch is so 1990...
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Old July 6th, 2011, 18:39   #24
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that was great, thanks for sharing it with us
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Old July 6th, 2011, 21:22   #25
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CF training on weapon are great for initial formation but as we go further into training we learned from Afghanistan and from people who wants to improve themself of course infrantry will have better results than other trader be cause it is their job full time to be able to do those stuff as marines do in the US but we must learn one thing from that post is that everytime we go into combat wheter airsoft or real one we need to be able to remember the training we have and get there prepared to face what is in front of us there will always be improvement to be made to training plan as time goes by and thing change on the battle field but lessons taugh by people who have gone on a combat tour is the most valuable asset for our training we can ever imagine because experience talk from itself

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Old July 7th, 2011, 12:03   #26
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Originally Posted by the_silencer View Post
i had to figure it out myself from playing modern warfare .
wtf dude???
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Old July 7th, 2011, 13:43   #27
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Yeah man, you just click the circle button. It's kinda the same I guess.
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