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[playing pretend] a hypothetical Airsoft company

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Old May 2nd, 2011, 23:55   #1
Skytorn
 
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[playing pretend] a hypothetical Airsoft company

Hey guys,

One of my fantasies/pipe dreams for when I've got a ton of money kicking around is to start a small airsoft manufacturer. I figured I will throw my ideas out there and see if this actually appeals to airsoft players other than the 3 I know.

The concepts behind the company mostly revolves around two things: 1. "Great Jiminy Cricket are airsoft guns expensive" and 2. "why does every company just manufacture 29 variants of the M4, but if I want a Tavor I'd have to pay out the nose for the one company with a monopoly?" The former I can reconcile with the fact that quality costs a pretty penny, but the latter is particularly baffling as airsoft guns are just shells for a mechbox...so, without further ado, Atlas Armaments: first in the phonebook, first in value, first in awesome. :P


1. The company will be HK/Taiwan/Singapore based. No one enjoys the manufacture costs in NA and Japan's market is too entrenched as it is. Maybe in 10, 20 years the situation will be different, though.

2. The quality/price standard will be somewhere around SRC or JG guns.

3. AEGs and AEPs, no blowback and no metal bodies. Fibreglass .

4. The company will specialize in exotic, tacticool guns that are underrepresented in current airsoft. Some examples would be:

- ACR - SCAR-L and H
- F2000 - XM8
- TAR-21 - Spectre M4
- Famas F1 - G11

If you're reading this non-exhaustive list and thinking, these look familiar...yep. You guessed right. Atlas Armaments will take everybody's money, but most of all it'll be the guys who probably play more videogames than they do running out on the field. Personally, I feel this is a market that is SORELY under...for lack of a better word, exploited. They could use some catering. Hell, I could use some catering.

5. In addition there would be a line of shotguns like the AA12 and Neostead 2K that use the Marushin/Maruzen (don't remember which one) that doesn't use shotshells. I've always found those incredibly impractical outside the backyard.

6. Most importantly, Atlas Armaments shall swear to never, ever make an AR-15 or an AK.

That's what I have so far. Thoughts? Criticisms? Laughter? Have at it!

ps. if you're wondering, I've started airsoft in England where I go to university, hence no age verification, but I'm Canadian in my bones. :P
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 00:19   #2
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No GBBRs? They're the way of the future, and there aren't many different designs out there... I'm wanting a GBBR MP5
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:09   #3
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Pay all the startup costs, buying factories, machines, making prototypes.
Then come back to us.

There's already many clones companies that are successful. I'm pretty sure this would be a HUUUUUGE investment, for prices that are the same as or MORE than current offerings.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:16   #4
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I already own 4 hypothetical airsoft companies with a 5th being built in Micronesia as we speak. They are theoretically very profitable and I spend a large amount of my speculative time in managing them.


Seriously, yea it would be neato keen. But so would a billion other things. If you ever get around to it let us know and Im sure if you produce a good product people will show interest. Otherwise leave the speculation to your daydreams.


Cheers.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 01:23   #5
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Just to expand on Rugger's thoughts, and not to sounds like an ass but...

That's kinda like saying Nike is a cool company, but I feel their prices are too high and I want to make a company that makes similar products to compete with them.

Do you have any idea of the costs to do that? You'd essentially be re-inventing the wheel.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 02:32   #6
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And people do make money off re-inventing the wheel because they save on costs like R&D. However if the skimp on other costs they just end up making a shitty wheel no one wants.

so Skytorn...I see your IP address shows that your in Canada right now. I suppose you could get verified if you wanted to. That way you could have access to more areas of this forum so you can gather info for your imaginary company.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 10:56   #7
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Why not just give the community free guns? that would be money well spent! and it would directly benefit the community!

Plus, it sounds cheaper then starting your own company
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 22:59   #8
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Everyone was pretty quick to shut you down. shame.

The truth:
For around $60.00 Canadian, you can start your own company, get your business name registered, and open up a RST/HST account with revenue Canada.

"Atlas Armaments" could be a legitimate business in no time.

Another thing people are missing is: why invent, reinvent or even sell wheels? Axles were the new wheels, then differentials... If you can create something totally unique, or something that revolutionizes the market, you can easily succeed.

GBBR rifles are cool and all, but HPA has proven to be a better alternative than co2/refrigerants for paintball. Find the missing link between performance, and realism.

Keep up the dreaming, it's all you've got while you work your life away.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 23:26   #9
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Welcome to ASC where even in the Newbie Tank you get slammed for newbie talk...are there no dreams left in this world?

Dream my man! Dream big, dream often and dream wild...you just never know.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 23:56   #10
Skytorn
 
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To everybody saying, or thinking "leave the daydreaming to your daydreams"...what is a forum for if not for discussion? I want to get an idea of what people would like. Literally all of one response answered the question I originally posed, which was "would something like this appeal to your wallets".

Would you people throw down money for an upgradeable, well-built, plastic exteriors G11? What about a PP2000 that uses TM's basic AEP design?

These are the pertinent questions, basically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styrak View Post
That's kinda like saying Nike is a cool company, but I feel their prices are too high and I want to make a company that makes similar products to compete with them.

Do you have any idea of the costs to do that? You'd essentially be re-inventing the wheel.
I wouldn't be reinventing the wheel. We have the wheel. We have the car. We have all the R&D covered. We know people buy cars and we know how to make a car that doesn't blow up. All I'd like to do now is offer the car with a sleeker profile and multiple paintjobs.

In response to the Nike example, doesn't the sheer smorgasbord of different shoe companies prove that it's feasible and profitable? In addition to Nikes, I also own Air Jordans, NewBalance, and ******. I don't buy shoes because they're Nikes, I buy shoes that I like. Some of them happen to be made by other companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoSeven View Post
And people do make money off re-inventing the wheel because they save on costs like R&D. However if the skimp on other costs they just end up making a shitty wheel no one wants.

so Skytorn...I see your IP address shows that your in Canada right now. I suppose you could get verified if you wanted to. That way you could have access to more areas of this forum so you can gather info for your imaginary company.
The two companies I set as a standard, SRC and JG, don't usually come up on this forum being held in high regards, that is true. Yet they both hold their own in the airsoft market, and if they can carve out a niche then Atlas Armaments certainly can.

But we come back to a point I want to reiterate, because I have yet to get a good answer. When I was 16 I was taking apart Nerf guns to modify, and there I understood that the whole "gun" is just a fancy shell for a spring & plunger. The exact same is true for airsoft--with a few exceptions like bullpup rifles, they're just shells for a gearbox and a magazine. So why on Earth is there such little motivation to make new forms and shapes for these shells?

ps: Yeah I am back for the summer. Last time I tried to get AV'd, I had to cancel the meeting a day before. feel like a bit of an ass to ask again right now. I'll get to it later.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 00:00   #11
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Now if you said you would be making a factory here in Canada and these would be Canadian built guns then I would be interested. But the way you want to run it we would all have to deal with the same importation laws just to be able to get them into Canada.
That and you really would be doing something for the Canadian airsoft community by keeping everything here.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 00:16   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytorn View Post
, So why on Earth is there such little motivation to make new forms and shapes for these shells?
It will cost five to ten thousand dollars to open up a mold to make those shells. Those molds wear out and have to be replaced also, it's not a one time expense. The more they're used the quicker they're used up.

How many non-M4s would have to sell to get that 5K back and start making money? What percent of spare parts will you hold and for how many years will you pay for the warehouse space for those parts? How many more non-M4s will need to sell to pay for that expense?

As an aside there is almost no gun that you can't get an airsoft version of. Sure some may be harder to get but they're out there.

Then look at the little one off builders like Candyman or Dobey. The used their natural talent to turn out some amazing pieces but the shallow pockets of the average player won't support that type of boutique build.

So what can you do? Take a look at Airsoft Innovations. They're a Canada based company that is wildly succesful. It's clear that there is room if you can indentify a need.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 01:06   #13
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i got absolutely no credible experience or knowledge in this field but i can definitely say i am intrigued by this idea.
I sort of like the idea of non mainstream guns being Canadian friendly and thus easier/cheaper to aquire, but on the flip side, not a lot of people like clear soft guns. How do plan on tackling this? Replacement bodies? or is it not a concern at all?
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Old May 4th, 2011, 01:25   #14
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You're missing one big factor here.

A Business has to make money. The largest demographic purchases AK's and M4's. By cutting the largest demographic and feeding into a niche group, you will have to charge more to meet the upkeep. M4's and AK's pay the bills. There is a reason they are so prevalent, and it's because they're the bread and butter of airsoft.

The second issue you'd run into is Licensing fees for your niche guns. These are very specifically designed weapon systems and, as such, have strict trademarks. Legally, you cannot just start pumping out Tavor's without obtaining the license to do so. It is an infringement on Trademark and most likely will result in cease and desist orders. If you do pay the licensing, you'd probably have to sell the guns for a ridiculous price tag just to pay the cost of licensing, never mind the previously discussed upkeep.

Any idea is a good idea, but very few of them are executable.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 15:24   #15
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Your logic is flawed. If you want to provide exotic guns, you can't expect to have the same volume of sales as the other manufacturers that cater to the M4 crowd. The M4 models are offered in such volume because there is a demand.

The reason your Tavor and many others are more expensive is that there is lower sales possible and a higher risk to produce them.

If you are going to make new guns, don't expect to be able to sell them cheap.

As for a general grudge against the M4, why not produce the really rare ones? Try to find a Shrike and come back telling us that they are easy to find.
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