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Old February 6th, 2011, 13:12   #1
ThreeJsDad
 
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Need some guidence

My son and I are very seriously considering the switch from P-Ball to Airsoft but I have no idea what companies to look at for guns. I am interested in a sniper system and he wants to act as my spotter. In PB these roles don't really exist due to the limited range of the guns.

I have even built and designed a couple of PB guns so I really enjoy tinkering.

I have been looking at the Ares WA2000 for me or the DSR-1 (I would switch it to HPA).

I am not sure if these would be good choices and I have no idea what to get my son. His current PB system is pretty high end so he knows how to take care of his gear.

I realize this is a matter of opinion to a certain extent but durability and quality of construction are what I am really looking for.

Thanks, Paul
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Old February 6th, 2011, 13:16   #2
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HPA would probably push the fps way over field limits.

also tm and classic army sniper rifles tend to be amazing quality. i dont know about ares.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 13:20   #3
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If this is your first time playing airsoft most people will not recommend a sniper rifle as your first gun.

Where are you located? Will you be playing indoors or outdoors? I recommend going to an indoor place nearby and trying it out before you invest the money in a sniper rifle. If you plan on playing outdoors mostly a good AEG will be better for your money as it will be more adaptable to your playing style.

If you can, get Age Verified so you can view the Restricted Age section and the classifieds. It will help you make a better decision into what type of gun you want, and will allow you to find one for cheaper used.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 13:35   #4
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Well, 99% of the people will say NOT to start out with a sniper rifle. However, Im part of the 1% percent that doesnt encourage or discourage.

My first sniper rifle was an AGM VSR10, clone of one of the best sniper rifles, the TM VSR10. However, AGM is a clone gun, and clones are prone to be lemons, meaning they will break constantly and it's a money pit. in the 5 years I had it, I only had to replace the spring guide, and maintain the rifle.

The AGM is what inspired me to buy the TM (Tokyo Marui) VSR10, which was my best investment in the sport of airsoft. The CA (or Classic Army) M24 sniper rifle is also an excellent platform as a first bolt action sniper rifle. WELL can also make some good clones, but again, clones are prone to being lemons.

Overall, I started with a BA rifle because there were less parts that can break as opposed to AEGs and especially GBBRs, and because it was easy to work with
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Old February 6th, 2011, 13:49   #5
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I think paintball and airsoft are about the same for range. (not 100%on that)

If you fill in your profile someone might be able to refer you to a place close to you to check out airsoft guns before you buy.

Also not sure of the age of your son but many fields are 18 plus only. There are exceptions made (especially if you are playing alongside him) but if he's only 13-14 it probably won't fly.

Also check out the FAQ's they have a TON of info that is intimidating but valuable to read.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 14:16   #6
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First off, I'd like to say thank you for getting involved as a parent. We get a lot of bratty/whiny kids on here so this is definitely refreshing. Secondly, being involved as a parent is great and I fully support proper parental guidance/supervision when using airsoft (and paintball). Remember though these things do look like real guns so unless you're out in the sticks don't shoot it outside where public may see it (or where peeping toms could be walking by peering through your bushes/fence and then calling the police).

The only way you're going to get HPA is if you decide to go with "classic airsoft". And that stuff goes for $2000+ easily (at least inside Canada).

Also remember that most fields will have 18+ rules however some fields that have a "16+ with parental waiver and/or parent present at all times" aren't uncommon. There are some fields that allow younger but they are few and far between (the only ones I can name being "E.A.S.Y. Group", LowShotz, and Ambush Anonymous).

As for tinkering, that's great actually mechanical skills/aptitude is always a good thing to have.

ARES is actually a pretty good company so you should be fine with their products. Other companies I would suggest are Classic Army, KWA, G&P, RealSword, King Arms, VFC, and TM (Tokyo Marui) to a lesser extent.

Don't get me wrong TM is a great company with tight tolerances, great build quality and a high standard of quality control but they're of plastic construction (which could be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it) and OOTB they come with a low FPS due to Japanese Law (which can easily be changed with a $10 spring upgrade).

I would seriously suggest that you work on getting Age Verified which just involves meeting up with an AV rep them checking you are who you say you are, and your DOB and then forwarding it to the admins/staff of the site to update your profile with an AV tag (done once a week or sometimes may take up to 2 weeks). That just opens up a wider market for you so that you might be able to find a great deal on a used packages or BNIB stuff. It's not 100% necessary but I would go through with it just to see what's on the other side (and trust me the other side is awesome).

As for budget, if you're both woodsball/milsim players then your BDU's, PB mask, barrel condom, and other stuff can transfer over so you can save some money there. I would say that you should budget $450-500 for a good used gun maybe up to $600-700 if you want something that's upgraded or has extras like extra mags, charger, optics, extra batteries, etc. So that brings it up to $1000-1400 to kit both you and your son with guns and then maybe another $200-300 to kit you both up with vests/chestrigs and other random accessories if you so desire.

PS: Airsoft "snipers" don't really have that much of an advantage over other players. The range of the guns are fairly similar unless you heavily upgrade the sniper rifle and even then you only get one shot while the other guy can unload a hailstorm of BB's in your general direction. Remember you only need one hit to get someone out, it's not like pistols do less damage than assault rifles, or sniper rifles, a hit, is a hit, is a hit. Technically automatic rifles can be more "accurate" over the same period of time as a sniper rifle because they can just fling more BB's downrange in the hopes of hitting someone. Also automatic rifles AEG's) can be upgraded just like sniper rifles and be able to float out BB's downrange across the field like a sniper rifle can.

Good luck, I hope this info helps you out.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 14:49   #7
ThreeJsDad
 
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Thanks Folks on many levels. I am in NC, USA and we have a local field that will allow my son to play as long as I am there. I have been involved in PB for over 15 years and I am not real interested in speedball anymore and we are looking at some very nice woods ball/milsim type guns such as MilSig but as nice as they are unless we shoot First Strike rounds we have no more accuracy than a typical PB gun. On top of that many fields do not allow the FS rounds so I am right back where I started with a round, seamed .68 ball traveling at 285fps.

I am not afraid of playing with a bolt action or semi as I love playing PB with a pump gun. My son and I have given up the "spray and pray" tactics. A 2k case of paint can be over $60 US at some of the bigger games. S&P is just to expensive at those kind of prices.

The advantage of HPA is it can quite easily be regulated to decrease the PSI low enough to get the FPS down. For my weapon system it will be a spring rifle of I will mod a CO2 to work off an HPA remote system.

We do indeed live way out in the sticks. When I shot tournament archery I practiced in the yard. We actually do PB drills in the yard.

I will do the age verification as I have 18 for almost 30 years.

One of the largest scenario games on the East Coast is less than 2hrs from my house.

We are really torn about making the switch and much of that is due to lack of knowledge about the different firing mechanisms and the manufacturers. How the game is played isn't much different from what we are already doing.

Thanks Again

Paul
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Old February 6th, 2011, 15:08   #8
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Are you coming to Canada? Cause that's the only way to get age verified and you don't even need it.

Prices in the USA are many times cheaper than buying in Canada, we envy you!

You should look for other airsofters in your area and check out their stuff before buying.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 15:20   #9
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An American.... I see..... I've just sharpened my pitchfork and have my torch already lit.

If you're an American then you'll have totally different rules than we do in Canada. You don't need to do Age Verification at all, that's just a Canadian thing and not only that just something we have enacted on this site (it has no legal bearing whatsoever, it's just a system so that we can vet the buyers/sellers and make sure people buying guns from this site are 18+).

I would suggest creating accounts at Arnies Airsoft and Airsoft Retreat, you'll be able to find classified sales there since most of the classified sales on this forum are for Canadians. It doesn't mean that you can't hang around here and learn a few things, I actually have an account on Arnies as well just so that I can learn a few things that may not be on this site since knowledge is very fractured and spread everywhere. If you really want to get to the "juicy meat" and cutting edge knowledge in the airsoft world you need to be able to read Japanese, Baybayin, Korean, or Chinese since that's where the most mature airsoft markets are but anyways the info in English is good enough.

As for PB..... Have you considered maybe buying a pump gun and playing Stock, Modified Stock, or Open Class paintball? It's actually something that I'm looking at myself just to go to a dropin day when I feel like it and last a whole day on a bag of 100 balls (at $10...).

Also..... if you're in the US then you'll see a lot lower prices for your airsoft than we do in Canada. Notable stores in the US are TheWarStore ( www.thewarstore.org ) apparently the 4th largest store on the East Coast, AirsoftExtreme, AirsoftGI, Airsplat, AirsoftPost/Evike, and ECA (East Coast Airsoft) are the ones that come off the top of my head.

And if you're looking at going the HPA route, may I suggest going to Airsoft Extreme and buying a DaytonaGun they're pricey coming in at almost $1000 but all you need is your HPA tank and remote line and you're good to go (plus they use regular AEG mags so you save money on those (~$60 for a pack of 10 plastic mags) compared to buying $60+ (each) GBBR mags).
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Last edited by L473ncy; February 6th, 2011 at 15:22..
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Old February 6th, 2011, 15:34   #10
ThreeJsDad
 
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Thank you so much, I was once almost Canadian, I lived in Upstate NY just across the lake from Canada. I am also a big fan of Bob and Doug....LOL. I will check out the other sights you mentioned and we are also looking into PB options since we already have ties there but I am somewhat tired of the cost to play. For my son and I to play for the day it is $15 each for field fees (that is really cheap) and $40-$60 for a case of paint, some of which we will have left. On the low side it is still $50 before gas and lunch.

Paul
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Old February 6th, 2011, 15:36   #11
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ThreeJsDad, a stock aeg will out perform a stock marker by about 3x. This includes distance and accuracy. I would recommend spring powered and not hpa if you are looking to mimick the "accuracy and distance" of a sniper rifle. But please keep in mind that even fully upgraded the extra distance is about 50-75ft, you will not be making 300ft shots. A solid bolt action rifle will cost you about $300, but upgrades will cost you another $500-800 alone. Plus don't forget you will need a decent scope which will run you another few hundred. The brands you should look at for a spring sniper rifle are TM and CA thats it. Don't get a clone as you will be very disapointed with performance.

If you have any other questions please ask away.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 15:45   #12
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I merely skimmed the replies, so this may have been covered.


Buut. If you are willing to drop WA2000 dollars, I would say just go ahead and order two CA armalite or AK series guns for you and your son. You'll get to see what the game is all about with the guns that most people use. You're always going to want to have a working AEG ready for use.

Also, a properly tuned bolt action or sniper oriented gun is going to take a lot of money and time to figure out. Do yourself a favor and buy a couple reliable, nice guns. Invest in the sniper platform later. You might even decide a counter sniper m14 or the like setup would be better.

Cheers,
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Old February 6th, 2011, 21:10   #13
ThreeJsDad
 
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I really appreciate all the input and advice. I am pretty sure that keeping a sniper rig in tune and building one can't be any more difficult that keeping a high end dual cam target bow in tune or keeping a high performance RC sailplane in tune. As nice as the WA2000 is I would probably go with the DSR-1.

If we go this route we will end up working as a sniper team. The run and gun style isn't for us. For that we would stay with playing speed ball. We are looking more at a precision shooting style of play.

Maybe we should just do what one of the helpful folks have suggested and go with pump style guns and stay with PB.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 21:16   #14
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Originally Posted by ThreeJsDad View Post
I really appreciate all the input and advice. I am pretty sure that keeping a sniper rig in tune and building one can't be any more difficult that keeping a high end dual cam target bow in tune or keeping a high performance RC sailplane in tune. As nice as the WA2000 is I would probably go with the DSR-1.

If we go this route we will end up working as a sniper team. The run and gun style isn't for us. For that we would stay with playing speed ball. We are looking more at a precision shooting style of play.

Maybe we should just do what one of the helpful folks have suggested and go with pump style guns and stay with PB.
The problem with that is only you have changed your playing style while everyone else is still slinging ropes of paint at you. Unless it is small skirmishes the style of play is differant in airsoft as it is usually more objective based.
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Old February 6th, 2011, 21:22   #15
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The brands you should look at for a spring sniper rifle are TM and CA thats it.
Umm... maruzen!
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