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Old November 3rd, 2010, 00:44   #31
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I guess now; chrony's will be mandatory in public games...
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 00:49   #32
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buyairsoft has undergone huge changes, management being just one. A brick and mortar store and much improved service are some others.

Their previous reputation is what they are trying very hard to fix.......
I'll partially agree with that. They're trying hard to fix their shitty, unresponsive service, shipping errors, poor communications and shoddy, overpriced products.

Now instead they've pulled the rug out of the G&G market from the others that did the work to get G&G into Canada originally (Ken / 007) and are marketing overpowered guns directly at underage kids and noobs.

Great way to make themselves accepted by the community. It takes more than just good service to be considered a reputable dealer.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 00:56   #33
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I guess now; chrony's will be mandatory in public games...
Strange that any place DIDN'T have that rule before.

???
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 01:08   #34
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Strange that any place DIDN'T have that rules before.

???
Well, there used to be a time when you needed to open the mechbox to get a gun to those speeds. Now, it's the other way around. Benefit of doubt is harder to give, and that translates into more headaches and problem for organizers.

I know you know, but I find it funny they either don't or don't care.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 01:18   #35
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Exactly my point... Now with WE, KJW, WA gbrr and theses G&G max... Chrony'ing guns will be mandatory... Won't play any games if no chron'ing is available at the location... I trust most players i know but not newb's i don't know.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:09   #36
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This.

Anyone giving their business to these people are encouraging an entity that will only care about short term profitability at the cost of the safety of this hobby in Canada.

May they burn in hell.
Dude.....short term profitability......buyairsoft is affiliated with CAS...you know...that wholesaler that has been bringing in a shit load of items that people have been purchasing to keep this hobby going in Canada.....

Why should the retailer spend time swapping springs? If a player has the gun and it's too hot for his/her field then it's the players responsibility to downgrade...and the hosts responsibility to ensure players are within the fps limits.

The retailer sells the product to people who DON'T PLAY as well....a plinker or collector often don't care about what fps it shoots ( plinkers often want it to shoot harder.....).

It's about time people point fingers at the players and hosts then at retailers. Players need to take personal responsibility of their actions while airsofting and hosts need to take personal responsibility and enforce the field/game rules.

Guns shoot harder these days, gas guns shoot harder as propane is the norm, AEG's keep up by shooting harder. It's the nature of the beast. You don't see many 300fps guns out there being used. It's the way it is and it's not the "fault" of retailers.

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I'll partially agree with that. They're trying hard to fix their shitty, unresponsive service, shipping errors, poor communications and shoddy, overpriced products.

Now instead they've pulled the rug out of the G&G market from the others that did the work to get G&G into Canada originally (Ken / 007) and are marketing overpowered guns directly at underage kids and noobs.

Great way to make themselves accepted by the community. It takes more than just good service to be considered a reputable dealer.
I don't see them marketing MAX guns to minors. Minors will buy them, but that is nothing new ( from ANY retailer ). I don't see them pulling the G&G market out from anyone...it's buisness man. Your argument seems to stem from the sense of Kens efforts being "dishonored" or it being "unfair". Business and emotion don't mix. They are linked with CAS, they have the ability to get product others can't. It's an advantage, it's making them money and suppling the community with a product....

Retailer loyalty is great, but to dislike another retailer because they can get in a similar product makes little sense.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:25   #37
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Methinks ASC has shares in CAS/buyuneragedairsoft.com the way they're being defended here lol

to hell with them, the underaged kidiot noobmonkeys that buy their shit aren't reflective of this community; this website and it's av system, retailers and classifieds section are more supportive of the hobby than those pricks at CAS etc.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:32   #38
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Those underaged kidiot noobmonkeys buy their shit from pretty much ALL retailers....give credit where it's due.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:40   #39
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Yep I hate walmart and CT just as much as them, but they sell other things that I need from time to time.

The retailers I support are the ones that actually make an attempt to be or actually are members of this community, people that understand this community's views on minors and airsoft.

Buyairsoft is notorious for selling to underaged people, how many noob threads asking for gun help have started off with "so I got the well l96 from buyairsoftand I wanted to upgrade it" or "which g&g guns is better (with mandatory links to buyairsoft.ca)"

can't remember the last time I read a post from some kidiot saying he got a gun from Submarineman or Styrak or Eeyore or anyone else that plies their trade here; can anyone else?

So yes give Jack his Jacket, and buyairsoft has earned the reputation they currently enjoy among this community.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:45   #40
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Methinks ASC has shares in CAS/buyuneragedairsoft.com the way they're being defended here lol
The kick back cheques Im getting in the mail every month are paying for my new car.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:03   #41
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You really think the retailers on ASC havn't sold to minors? Like....really?

How long have you been in airsoft? You do realize there are MANY minors that play, have airsoft and don't utilize ASC....

I'm not disqualifying buyairsofts reputation, as you pointed out they earned it and are doing what they can to change that...my issue is the fact that we have MANY members here that have no actual experience with them jumping on the bandwagon to slag them. They see some members beating the dead horse and figure they should join in. There comes a point where it becomes....well...slander.


I wish my cheques were that much, I get a couple of porn mags and a box of kleenex and my funds are spent....I need to talk to them about that I guess......
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:10   #42
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Well this being Asc and all, I was referring to the ASC community.

Yes people jusT parrot what they've heard, sometimes things that aren't true,like them being scammers etc. But what I said up there is the truth, sure some kids might have gotten away with a paypal transaction with our retailers etc. But exactly who is KNOWN for selling to kids? Not Baker Jeff and Alberta Airsoft or Karnage it's buyairsoft, that's my beef with them.

And yes, I know kids do play and own guns, but everyone knows my opinion on that, and as far as where I play, we don't allow kids to play and if they started allowing them, I would stop going there.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:15   #43
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First and foremost, I'm not looking for a fight. It would be easy to try to link your recent CAS apology to ownership or partnership issues. I don't care. Even if you owned CAS now, I'd rather give a frank opinion in hope of seeing change.

No bad feelings in any case.

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Dude.....short term profitability......buyairsoft is affiliated with CAS...you know...that wholesaler that has been bringing in a shit load of items that people have been purchasing to keep this hobby going in Canada.....
Ok, they have facilitated it. Fine.

This being said, other sources have always existed and more do now.

The BOYS bullshit they pulled (M4 with a blue or red handguard) was pathetic, the current G&G lineup @ 400+ fps is irresponsible. Like I said, we all know how these are coming in. Sure, velocity is a component of this, but you cannot tell me that selling these to the open public is a good idea.

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Why should the retailer spend time swapping springs? If a player has the gun and it's too hot for his/her field then it's the players responsibility to downgrade...and the hosts responsibility to ensure players are within the fps limits.
Like I said, you needed to know how to modify mechboxes to bring them to unsafe velocities. Now you need to need to know to bring them down to safe speed.

As for responsibility, even if they declare that it's the responsibility of the player to learn about field regulations, you need to consider that airsoft is not always played in ASC type events. Backyards games and unauthorised playing in woods happen. Period.

Faster guns mean more risk of injury, to the participants and to bystanders. People should not play where they are not authorized to, but they will.

Also, high fps guns risk defeating cheap safety glasses, you know, they only kind carried by CAS.

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Originally Posted by Cortexburn View Post
The retailer sells the product to people who DON'T PLAY as well....a plinker or collector often don't care about what fps it shoots ( plinkers often want it to shoot harder.....).
Sure, and as a collecting chairsofter myself, the trades on these products make me avoid them.

Quote:
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It's about time people point fingers at the players and hosts then at retailers. Players need to take personal responsibility of their actions while airsofting and hosts need to take personal responsibility and enforce the field/game rules.
Sure, but the many issues of 400+ fps guns arise because they are available.

Personal responsibility is great and all, but it would be dishonest to think new players are omniscient. Expecting people to be able to play in mechboxes right off the bat is naive, wishful thinking at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexburn View Post
Guns shoot harder these days, gas guns shoot harder as propane is the norm, AEG's keep up by shooting harder. It's the nature of the beast. You don't see many 300fps guns out there being used. It's the way it is and it's not the "fault" of retailers.
Strawman argument. There is a difference between a 350 fps gun and a 400+ fps gun.

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I don't see them marketing MAX guns to minors. Minors will buy them, but that is nothing new ( from ANY retailer ). I don't see them pulling the G&G market out from anyone...it's buisness man. Your argument seems to stem from the sense of Kens efforts being "dishonored" or it being "unfair". Business and emotion don't mix. They are linked with CAS, they have the ability to get product others can't. It's an advantage, it's making them money and suppling the community with a product....
Refer to the BOYS thing from before.

As for emotion, I will admit that I have bought probably less than 200$ of accessories from Ken. Not an issue with Ken, bad timing I guess. I do understand why CAS took over Ken's G&G market share, they had an opportunity and ran with it. Fine, still, excluding him does speak to their character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexburn View Post
Retailer loyalty is great, but to dislike another retailer because they can get in a similar product makes little sense.
This goes beyond retailer loyalty. I probably spent somewhere between 20 and 30 thousand dollars in guns in the last 6 years. I buy and sell often. I've bought stuff from pretty much every retailer as well as from individuals from the classifieds. I've bought from CAS as well.

I don't have an issue with CAS because of the Ken issue.
I don't have an issue with CAS because of questionable business strategy.
I don't have an issue with CAS because of slow and sluggish support.

I don't care. I could either ignore or bypass these issues.

I have an issue with CAS because of direct and explicit marketing to minors. (source and source)
I have an issue with CAS because they sell a product that is prohibited from entry into most organised fields. (four hundred and fucking sixty fps in some cases, above even BA limits)
I have an issue with CAS because their payment method is open to exploitation from minors.

Retailers outside of ASC's AV system (or local equivalent) ignore the most reliable minor and idiot filter in Canada. Full stop.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:40   #44
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20 and 30 Thousand.....damn......I bow to you for that...LOL. WOW.

I guess my thing is as a player if you buy a gun that is too hot to play with then it's YOUR responsibility to down grade it ( either yourself or a gun doctor....). There is no passing on of that responsibility.

As it turns out my clubs field seems to have the highest documented allowed fps for play in Canada at 435, many other fields have 400 and some 350....what does that have to do with what ANY retailer selling guns? Nothing. By that logic fast cars or bikes that can go over the speed limit should not be sold as their top speed is prohibited on roads.... I might add that we DO chrono, and if a player swaps springs or does some other action like this then they get booted. It's MY responsibility as a host to ensure our rules are followed, as it's the players responsibility to follow the rules. I don't think it's the retailers responsibility to ensure their product follows my clubs rules. It's my responsibility to provide the rules to players and for them to know them. The retailer has no part in airsoft beyond providing the product.

Marketing to minors....not really an issue. The AV system is flawed. Members seem to think that because ASC has the AV system then every player/retailer in Canada should abide by this system.

I'd like to make it clear that the AV system was placed into ASC policy for the SOLE purpose of stopping the sale of guns to minors on ASC. Period. At it's conception it made sense, but times and circumstances have changed and this policy will also.

Pointing fingers at ANY retailer for selling to minors outside of the ASC forums is pointless.

Minors play, here in Alberta there are forums and teams/clubs of minors that play. They have purchased their airsoft from buyairsoft AND other retailers....that also retail here on ASC. Is this a horrible thing? No. It's not illegal, it's not "wrong". It's business.

The AV system to MANY MANY members has achieved this holy status, it would be in the airsoft bible. It's a FORUM POLICY.

Retailers who chose to use it in their daily business...good for them. But there is no and has never been any requirement for this when doing off ASC sales.

Due to Walmart, CT, Cabella's, Wholesale sports, bass pro and every other sports store, hobby store, hardware store that sells "softair" AND airsoft minors have airsoft. It's done. The minors that buy from the retailers that we buy from are a drop in the bucket. Time to work on the situation as it is today and not as it was years back.

As for buyairsoft, they have to live with their rep until new customers provide reviews and feedback. I have no affiliation with CAS or buyairsoft other then they are local. I get to hear more about them due to this. The huff and puff members are doing about them is over old business. The ownership of CAS as far as I know does not manage Buyairsoft. I do know CAS is a PURELY business endeavor. Expect decisions with CAS to follow that.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:57   #45
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Lol I might as well just disregard all rules on this site from now on, imagine an ASC mod arguing for the proliferation of airsoft to minors, lock up your noobs the noob tank is about to get alot warmer hehheheh
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