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Old October 27th, 2010, 16:48   #1
Brian McIlmoyle
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BBs supplied by the field

I expect that this is going to be a growing trend.. so I want to open the discussion here.

I have been seriously considering restricting to supplied by Field BBs for all games at TTAC3 and at FTF

here is why.

1. I can then ensure that rules with respect to bb restrictions are adhered to.

I require the use of .20 wight bbs at TTAC3 but I know for a fact that some people ignore me and shoot whatever they happen to have.

2. Enforce the use of Biodegradable bbs

-- As I am now using land that does not belong to me for my field I am concerned about future assessments of contamination with the use of plastic BBs , to eliminate this I am seriously considering going BIO BBs only at FTF. although I think that the environmental impact of BBs is negligible, others may not see it that way and I'd hate to be sued by the field owner for contaminating his property.

My intention would be to use BB Bastard products exclusively as in my opinion you can't get a better BB.

for the .20 I would have 1000 count bags made and sell at $5 a bag for indoor use. and I would offer Free Grenade BBs

$25 game fee would include a bag of BBs

At FTF I would require BB Bastard Bios be used and I would have them available for purchase at every game there.

I'm not sure I would require them to be purchased from me for that game alone.. but it certainly ensures that everyone complies

However this means that game costs would essentially double , $20 for field fee and up to $20 for a bag of BBs

How do people feel about this?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 16:54   #2
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know for a fact that some people ignore me and shoot whatever they happen to have.
that is not cool. is there anything else that can realistically be done against that kind of behaviour?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:13   #3
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that is not cool. is there anything else that can realistically be done against that kind of behaviour?
Indeed.. well it's not so much malicious as lazy behavior.. and also cost saving

Most people don't have much use for .20 bbs any more .. the standard "light bb" is .25

if you have 3 bags of .25... why buy a bag of .20 if no one can really tell the difference?

all white bbs look the same .. so no not really other than banning outside bbs and requiring bbs to be purchased at the facility .
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:13   #4
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Do what you have to do Brian. Since you'd be supporting Bastard products, there would be few here who object to doing that.

For the people who blatantly disregard your request for use of .20's, boot them. Refuse them entry at future events. If it's to ensure the safety of other players, by all mean force people to by ammo. If it's to prevent contaminants of a land not owned by you, by all means, sell bio bastards.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:21   #5
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Sorry to say but people are assholes and will usually take the easy way out (ie. just using .25's cause they have a bag of them sitting at home) and you can't give people preferential treatment (ie. senior members who you can "trust" can bring their own BB's).

The only feasible way is to only allow field BB's for safety's sake. It sucks but people will hopefully understand. Maybe if you lower the costs for field entry and sell the BB's in a way that you would recover the cost of the BB's and the field fee would be about equal that could be a strategy. Or include the BB's in with the field fee.

As well one thing could be to have players "pre purchase" BB's. I have heard that in Japan people will buy whole bottles of alcohol at a bar and the barkeep will keep it there so they can come whenever they want and drink it. A similar strategy could be implemented for players that frequent your venue. ie. They'd buy a whole bag of BB's (2000 BB's) and you store it in a back room or something with their name on it. Obviously you could run out of room quite easily but maybe only offer this service to people who play say at least 3 times over 2 months or something.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:35   #6
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that is not cool. is there anything else that can realistically be done against that kind of behaviour?
Get colorize the bb. Like light blue sky blue. It will be easily seen.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:36   #7
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That's a good idea ^ putting ppl's names on the bb's

I have never liked the idea of field supplied bb's as it is akin to paintball, but at a place where bb weights are required to be .20 I can't see any other way.

The bio bb thing also bothers me as I ran mesh mostly where I can, but since I've switched to shooting glasses for private field games this has become less of an issue.

I would be down to buy smaller bags of .20's and just leave it at TTAC3 for when I come for Friday night firefights.

The price thing is crucial to transparency so that people do not see it as a cash grab a la paintball, so if Bastards will be sold at normal prices, then this might work.

Also, for FTF games, outdoor due to the fact that bio's only go up to a certain weight you might have a problem with the sniper crowd and everone else that prefers heavier bb's

Just my view.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:45   #8
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Please note that I am in Western Canada, and thus have no bias in any of Brian's policies.
Just to play devil's advocate here....
How would you control the person who loads his mags at home with whatever BB they wish to use? Or perhaps sneak in a bag or mag?
Will you go as far as checking each gear bag, mag, etc?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:47   #9
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As long as you're providing the BBs at cost or with only a marginal markup (possibly combined with decreased field fee to compensate), I don't think it should be an issue. You're ensuring the safety of the field, and people don't have to worry about buying their BBs beforehand. If you add on the above mentioned BB storage for frequent players, the only hole I see is not being able to load mags until you're at the field (which is probably better for your mags). But really, that's about it. Storing BBs on your end may well simply involve a box, a sharpie, and some duct tape to ensure the bags stay closed. Sounds to me like everyone wins.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:48   #10
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I'd be lying if I said I did not see a business case for this..

I do make a little bit of money from bb sales but the margins are very slim,

Certainly I can't afford to include a $5 bag of bbs in the field fee, this would cut nearly 20% of revenue.


Bios are available up to .28 weight.. so only those that prefer .3 ( like I do) would be SOL

Snipers shoot so few rounds that they are insignificant.

I'm not interested in storing people's bbs , and don't have the room to anyway.

If you walk out with half a bag at the end of the night .. big deal.. we are talking $5 here

At the field for outdoor games the only approved BB would be BB Bastard Bios, I would not require you to buy them from me .. but I would have a ready supply at the field


I sell all BB bastard products with zero markup ( same price as retail from the BB bastard site) and I see no reason to stop that practice
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:52   #11
Brian McIlmoyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. T/O View Post
Please note that I am in Western Canada, and thus have no bias in any of Brian's policies.
Just to play devil's advocate here....
How would you control the person who loads his mags at home with whatever BB they wish to use? Or perhaps sneak in a bag or mag?
Will you go as far as checking each gear bag, mag, etc?
I'd rather not have to check ( and likely would not ) If I do go BIO only at FTF .. then I will require a declaration on check in, that only approved Bio BBs will be used.

If I find out someone is a big fat liarhead .. I'll deal with them
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:53   #12
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My issue with this type of field only BB sales is that you cannot load and be ready the day before and hit the field running. I arrive geared up, loaded up and ready to go in less than 2 minutes when I hit the ground.

I would hate to wait around as everyone unloaded their mags and reloaded with that fields BB's (Especially if you play more than twice a weekend, I don't unload to go to different areas the same weekend).

Getting airsofters to start on time is hard enough without adding more steps.

As long as the type of BB is specified in the game thread, I will have that ammunition at home and loaded or not attend the game if I don't have it available to use.

In the case of BIO BB usage being mandatory, if they are available for sale at the game that is great since most shooters would not have that on hand unless they play regularly at a field that requires them.

If increasing revenue is the goal, why not just raise the price to play. I attend games all over the province that range in price from free to 35 dollars a day plus. Those who are not willing to pay extra will stick with the local fields where they can play for 10 bucks or less anyways.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:56   #13
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In paintball, this is standard practice. However, field owners usually charge ludicrous markups, often for inferior quality products that get chopped in the gun. They make a killing on ammo sales - usually far more than their actual field fees.

As long as you're selling quality BBs (like Bastards or equivalent quality) and charging standard Bastard rates, I don't really see how anyone could legitimately have an issue with it. As long as you're not selling the cheapest BBs you can find at stupidly inflated prices, I doubt anyone would have an issue.

For Bio Bastards, I have no personal experience with them, so I don't know how good they are. But I suspect since they are Bastards, they're of the highest quality possible, so I wouldn't have any issues loading them into my guns.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 17:58   #14
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My issue with this type of field only BB sales is that you cannot load and be ready the day before and hit the field running. I arrive geared up, loaded up and ready to go in less than 2 minutes when I hit the ground.

I would hate to wait around as everyone unloaded their mags and reloaded with that fields BB's (Especially if you play more than twice a weekend, I don't unload to go to different areas the same weekend).

Getting airsofters to start on time is hard enough without adding more steps.
this is also one of my main concerns, but as I said I would not require you to buy them from me at the field.. but i would specify what brand are approved for use.

People found using unapproved BBs would be required to buy at the field
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Old October 27th, 2010, 18:01   #15
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the local indoor arena in Winnipeg includes BBs in the price. they have a bowl of BBs to hand load pistols and a bunch of loaders on hand to load guns when you come in. this way everyone takes BBs and can fill up to 4 AEG mags. after that, they charge per fill. granted the games are only 45 min at a time, so you don't usually need more than 4 mags
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