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Old August 30th, 2010, 16:41   #1
Ivanov
 
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New Club question

I've started an airsoft club in cold lake and while doing some recuriuting a number of parrents came to me saying their child has an airsoft gun can they join us. The guns they own are clear soft, except for a few 17 year olds who have full black/metal guns. Apparently the parrents of these kids have been letting them play with in thier neighbor hood something that is not a good idea. While I suport the 18 or over rule strongly I don't like the thought of these kids playing in town with little to no supervission so I'd like to provide them with a place to play as well as proper supervission. How ever before I get comitted to this I's like some input on the subject first. Oh and the ages of the kids are 11-17. I'd apreciate any useful input.

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Old August 30th, 2010, 16:43   #2
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One thing you have to be aware of, is they are not legally responsible for themselves at that age. Their parents would need to sign a waiver or be there with them (as well as various other things I haven't typed here), or you could get into HUGE legal shit.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 17:01   #3
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Regardless of who says it's ok...if one of the kiddies gets an eye shot out you're in for a Class 5 Hurricane Shit Storm.

Don't do it. Don't take part in it. Don't council/advise them (other than erring on the side of safety and caution telling them that they should supervise their kids). Don't condone, facilitate or support them.

If they're worried about their kids hurting themselves...then they should supervise it. Why? Because they are THEIR kids...not yours. Full stop, no ifs ands or buts.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 17:05   #4
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are the kids even legally allowed to own any airsoft at all under18 ?

oh wait I forgot nobody's legally allowed to own any airsoft in Canada

I would tell them that it's not possible and that their kid's can't theoretically use them.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 17:06   #5
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Regardless of who says it's ok...if one of the kiddies gets an eye shot out you're in for a Class 5 Hurricane Shit Storm.

Don't do it. Don't take part in it. Don't council/advise them (other than erring on the side of safety and caution telling them that they should supervise their kids). Don't condone, facilitate or support them.

If they're worried about their kids hurting themselves...then they should supervise it. Why? Because they are THEIR kids...not yours. Full stop, no ifs ands or buts.
^ This. Tell them to babysit their own brats.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 17:49   #6
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All very good points, ones i'm inclined to agree with. I'll take the advise and continue the 18 pluss rule. How ever I believe I should at least hold an information sesstion for the parents of these kids. So they understand why I can't let them join as well as explain the finer points of where you should and should not play as well as the need for them to supervise there kids properly after all they aren't going to stop playing simply because they can't join the club.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 18:10   #7
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Outfits like Low Shotz and Ambush Anonymous have their shit together so I don't see a reason why you can't. That being said though the commitment (especially since we're dealing with minors here) has to be there and consistent (probably not worth it for most people, and for me definitely not worth it based on my opinion and world view).

I don't agree with them having them in the first place but what can you really do now? I'd say on a trial basis have minors attend and say that a parent/legal guardian must be present at all times while playing at least in a spectator area or the safe zone (you're not a daycare and don't have police clearance either so it's to cover your ass). As well as enacting a policy of waivers (which although they don't really hold too much water is something that you can show to a jury if shit hits the fan).

Also if they prove to be mature and whatnot then it's good times but enact a zero tolerance policy period on safety issues (2 strikes I would say) as well as not welcoming people who prove to be douchebags and/or safety issues waiting to happen.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:02   #8
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In my experience there are a LOT of 18+ players that are very immature, egocentric, and elitist that it is dangerous to play angainst them for all involved.

Certainly getting the parents involved is a good idea, that's the way we do it here. Considering the youngsters are already playing, don't you think it is better for the hobby if they are nurtured by responsible players in a controlled environment? With the proper safety equipment, supervision/instruction, and playmates they are not going to get injured or be playing in a place where the police will become involved. Consider yourself at a crossroads where you can either ignore or intervene in, something that is already going on. My 2 cents.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:53   #9
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but as said before, you will become the proxy for anything that goes wrong, you think you'll be able to 'ban' troublemakers but you'll be suprised.

'little jimmy got shot on the chin and now people make fun of him THAT'S YOUR FAULT!!'

common sense went out the window when the soccer-mom came into being..

you will be blamed, you will be shouted at, some kids will NOT listen to you and you wont be thanked.

better that little jimmy gets a rap sheet for waving an ak near an old peoples home then YOU get a rap sheet because little jimmy decided to something illegal/stupid while under your care..

meh, underaged kids and anything airsoft should not be mixed unless it's BRIGHT FREAKING ORANGE and shoots @ 200fps with .12's

take it from someone who has heard the above style of madness from a friend who ran a karate class regularly (he had enough of one or two of the parents as well as the kids) his only words were:

'ive had enough of parents trying to verbally bully me because i kick their 'spawn' out of my class for not paying attention and acting like a little shit'

some parents will use you as a cheap babysitter by the way, but without the pay
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Old August 31st, 2010, 12:38   #10
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How about you let in 2 or 3 every weekend on a trial basis where parents must be present at all times (maybe even so far as to they must be playing on the field with you at all times) and that you let them know it's a privilege to be playing not a right. You won't hesitate to kick people off the field and "ban" them (including 18+ players) for an indefinite period of time (ie. 1 month ban, 3 month, 1 year, etc.).

Don't be all hardcore pseudo-military on them cause that just makes things look bad (ie. "oh that guy just plays airsoft cause he can't be in the real military"), but stay strict on safety rules and douchebaggery.

In short, unless you want to do it then don't because a lot of commitment is required and it's usually more trouble than it's worth in general especially now since "shooting sports" are involved (ie. a similar thing probably would have gone on for paintball 10-15 years ago)
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Old August 31st, 2010, 13:15   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivanov View Post
I've started an airsoft club in cold lake and while doing some recuriuting a number of parrents came to me saying their child has an airsoft gun can they join us. The guns they own are clear soft, except for a few 17 year olds who have full black/metal guns. Apparently the parrents of these kids have been letting them play with in thier neighbor hood something that is not a good idea. While I suport the 18 or over rule strongly I don't like the thought of these kids playing in town with little to no supervission so I'd like to provide them with a place to play as well as proper supervission. How ever before I get comitted to this I's like some input on the subject first. Oh and the ages of the kids are 11-17. I'd apreciate any useful input.

Cheers
If it's your field, make them understand the basics I would even go as far as Brian M version of an airsoft safety cert class

being underaged and playing airsoft is not new 18+ is a Canadian practice, there are underaged clubs in HK and Japan, shit I started airsoft when I was 12 back in HK under a VERY strict supervision, so WITH PROPER instruction it can work but strict enforcement and understanding of those rules in place by the parents and the participant and also an understanding the consequences of any violation must be hammered into both parents and participant.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 13:26   #12
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WITH PROPER instruction it can work but strict enforcement and understanding of those rules in place by the parents and the participant and also an understanding the consequences of any violation must be hammered into both parents and participant.

+1
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Old August 31st, 2010, 20:46   #13
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Well this will definately take a lot of commitment on my part if I follow through. I've set up the information sestion and demonstration game for the parrents next week. Beyound that there still seems to be much I need to consider. My biggest concern is the posibility of legal action against me if one of these kids does somthing stupid or gets injured and I end up on the wrong end of a law suite. Even with a parrental waver they can still take legal action against me and the club.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 11:22   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivanov View Post
Well this will definately take a lot of commitment on my part if I follow through. I've set up the information sestion and demonstration game for the parrents next week. Beyound that there still seems to be much I need to consider. My biggest concern is the posibility of legal action against me if one of these kids does somthing stupid or gets injured and I end up on the wrong end of a law suite. Even with a parrental waver they can still take legal action against me and the club.
Parental waiver can be forged and don't mean shit it's teh parents you have to make as partners, most kids would rather spend a few days in jail than the wrath of their parents so why not take advantage of it. once the parents are made aware of the consequences of their kids action when it comes to doing stupid shit with airsoft then it will make your job of enforcing the rules a bit easier
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Old September 1st, 2010, 11:37   #15
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Parental waiver can be forged and don't mean shit
Well if it's forged and the organizer has no reason to believe it's not, that should go a long way in court... key word there is should, not necessarily will.

I'm 110% with the idea of keeping the parents in the loop. If you are willing to take the risk and teach these kids safety, then power to you, but in the end it's the parents' job to keep their kids safe, not yours.

A small idea on the waivers? Make sure you have a copy of the Parent's signature for comparison, to make it easier to spot a forgery. Maybe keep a folder for each under-age player and keep the waivers and original parental consent in there for legal documentation. Not sure how practical that is for you but the more evidence that the parents are OK with this then the better prepared you are if shit hits the fan.

*edit* Getting age-verified on here can't hurt either
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