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ASC Classifieds trade dispute :(



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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:42   #1
SSJDiVaD's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
ASC Classifieds trade dispute :(

Hey ASC,
Here's another one of those threads where people complain about how someone screwed them in a deal, then ask what they should do.

This particular deal had me buying an upgraded Tokyo Marui M4 S-System from VS.T approx two months ago. The ad for the M4 can be found here. As usual, the deal started off like any classifieds deal should, with the potential buyer (me, SSJDiVaD) giving an offer and a quick negotiation with the seller (VS.T). We exchanged personal info, agreed on the deal, and I paid. He ended up shipping late by a week or so after he got the money from me. He said he had it all packed up and ready to be shipped but just forgot to ship it; I'm taking his word for it. A screenshot of our PMs can be found here.

Note: I bought the gun for my friend on ASC (username withheld because he's technically not a part of this deal) who's not Age-Verified but is over 18. I consider him intelligent and mature enough to be burdened with the responsibility of using an airsoft gun. Furthermore I take full responsibility for its purchase and use (or else he'd be writing this thread instead of me) and the gun is still under my ownership but on loan to him whenever he goes out to a game. I've taken the time to educate him about safety, transportation, and responsible use as well as pointing him in the direction of the FAQs and Newbie Tank. If any admin or user has a problem with him not being AV'd, I'll gladly refrain from allowing him to use the gun as I realize the community generally frowns upon this.

When the gun arrived, I sent him a PM to VS.T letting him know and I left some positive feedback. I opened the package; the first thing I noticed was how scratched up the paint was on the receiver and grip. I thought, "Oh well, he had described the condition as 'minor scratches'" so I was prepared to overlook it. As I fondled the gun, I noticed the front sight had an obscene amount of forward-backward play in its locked-up position. Moving towards the rear, I saw that the rear sight was missing a retaining pin and was therefore unable to stay locked down, and that the ornamental bolt catch on the side of the receiver was missing. The receiver also appeared to have cracked at once point, and was repaired with some sort of glue. I remained hopeful that no more problems would pop up, and was prepared to accept these issues given the internal upgrades and the price of the gun.

Separating the upper and lower receivers, I noticed that the inner barrel was brass-coloured and concluded that it couldn't be a Prometheus barrel as the seller claimed. The hop-up also had a large chip broken off, possibly from a double feed at some point in the gun's life.

At this point, I sent a PM to VS.T notifying him of the problems with the gun and asking for compensation. I later sent another PM to him when I discovered how to remove the magazine catch. These two PMs can be found here. I also changed my positive feedback to negative, hoping it would add pressure and get him to respond.
When he didn't reply for a while, I reasoned that he might have been on vacation somewhere and couldn't access the internet. So I waited for a month and a bit, and eventually decided to send him another PM, giving him a week to reply or I'd report him to the ASC admins and the RCMP for fraud. He still didn't reply, but he gave me negative feedback in retaliation (on my birthday too!), thus proving that he wasn't on vacation.

A week and two days later, we arrive at the present. There are $150ish worth of issues with the gun, he hasn't replied to any of my PMs, he won't give either a partial or full refund, he's left me negative feedback in retaliation, and my friend's sworn he'll never buy from the classifieds once he's AV'd (and I'll be rather hesitant in the future). I'm hereby reporting VS.T to ASC in the hopes that increased pressure will force him to at least open negotiations, and that he will start accurately describing the condition of his items to any future buyers. Failing that, I'm hoping to protect anyone else from getting scammed by VS.T.

I haven't reported VS.T to the RCMP for fraud yet; I'm willing to wait and see if he'll co-operate. Do you guys feel I should go ahead and report him? Do you guys feel I've done anything wrong in our deal to deserve negative feedback? Is there anything else I should do now?

Thanks for reading this far,

EDIT: In total, it has been two months and one day as of August 23rd, 2010 since I sent money via EMT.

Last edited by SSJDiVaD; August 23rd, 2010 at 11:37.. Reason: 1st edit:fixed a slight grammatical error. 2nd edit: clarified a section about buying for a friend. 3: added the total time
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:03   #2
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ottawa, Orleans (Ontario)
So, in long have you waited for his replies? seems like months and months have gone by...and still nothing yet?
instead he retaliates with neg feedback to you but still doesn't reply? that means he's clearly ignoring your concerns...
Seems like he sold you a dud, and if he didn't explain to you all the problems, you could technically report him.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:12   #3
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Location: Scarborough
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Dont wait. Report him right away.
The more you wait, the harder it gets.

I do think however that you should have worded your PM's to him differently.
"Demanding" compensation without attempting to amicably resolve the issue would most likely accomplish little more than pissing him off.
It is quite possible that he was unware of the issues (Though highly improbable). I would have just stated what your findings were, and allowed him to try to come up with a solution, before negotiating a solution. Only after failing to negotiate, I would insist on either a refund (with return of the gun) or compensation of the damaged parts.

telling him hes a "textbook" bad seller and accusing him of being a "scammer" is not really a great way to get anywhere in any negotiation of any shape or form. Your comment about him never being able to sell his other guns due to threats with negative feedback (Justified or not) wouldnt help either.

I hope you get this resolved, and while I do agree that you should be compensated and that the seller is in the wrong regards to his handling of the issue and his retaliatory feedback, I think you should have approached this in a very different manner. If I was the seller and someone approached me in that fashion. Chances are, I wouldnt be too motivated to help you.

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Last edited by DarkAngel; August 23rd, 2010 at 11:18..
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:36   #4
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I believe that VS.T has moved back to Hong Kong.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:14   #5
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retaliatory feedback... what a douchebag. Hope this gets resolved but if ex is correct then little to no possibility of that.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:32   #6
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Location: Toronto, ON
Thanks for your replies so far everyone.

to Darkangel:
Now that you mention it, I probably did come off as a bit too forceful too soon. In my defense, my first message (in the quote section of the "demands" PM, bottom half) after having discovered the problems was relatively polite and reasonable; the "demands" PM was sent after he failed to reply for almost a week. The "threatening RCMP report" came a month and bit after that "demands" PM in the hopes that he would at least reply. And I debated with myself for a while about how threatening and impolite my messages should be before sending them, and after having received no reply to my first PM for about a week, I figured the seller felt he hadn't done anything wrong and was therefore not obligated to reply. But you're right; I probably should have been more polite and my explanation doesn't really excuse my rudeness. If this ever happens again I will definitely be more reasonable.

Then again, DarkAngel, I'm sure you'd never omit massive amounts of significant information about something you're selling (intentionally or not) and then fail to reply when your buyer has problems with it.

in reply to AngelusNex:
Some may consider the negative feedback I received to be arguably justified; I don't want to colour your perception of this dispute with my language. As DarkAngel pointed out, I was a little rude in my PMs. I only feel the feedback he gave me was retaliatory because he posted it right after he found out I gave him negative feedback and because he didn't reply to any of my PMs, rude or not.

Just so you guys don't have to form your own interpretations based on my description of the problems, I'll take pics soon and edit them into the first post.

Again, thanks for your replies guys
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:42   #7
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Report it immediately to the police/RCMP. File a report with If he's left the country, the RCMP will likely pick him up if he ever tries to return. If he ever wants to return to Canada, this might be a big stick to wave in your favor.
Originally Posted by TokyoSeven View Post
That was a very bad move on your behalf. Sort of like cutting off your foot for money, but not getting the money first and then letting the person with the money run away.
Originally Posted by MadMorbius View Post
Liberals rely on emotion. Conservatives rely on evidence, and the Socialists rely on everyone else.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 12:09   #8
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Halifax
Sorry that the classifieds have given you grief. Look at my trader rating, I assure you that most of the dealings on here are satisfactory. Everyone on that list in my trader rating is great to deal with and I have dealt with several of them 2 and 3 times.

Although you may have been a little forceful in your opening email, it doesn't diminish the fact that you seem to have a long list of issues that should have been disclosed to you. Looks like you are going to have to spend the money to fix it up yourself, but find out who this guy is so if he comes back to the country you can track him down.

Lastly, retaliatory feedback is not allowed on this site. Please report your problem to the admins and they may revoke that negative feedback.

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