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ARS Powerup Bulb for 1911/Hicapa/226

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Old April 10th, 2010, 04:39   #16
jamuke
 
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you take out the loading nozzle, unscrew the really tiny screw, remove part
H51-22( if it's a Hi capa, probably different part # for 1911 and p226 )and replace it with ARS and reinstall everything else back again.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 04:48   #17
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Well, chances are if you don't know where it goes, you probably shouldn't be installing one yourself and/or doing so on your own. From personal experience, I had a fancy paperweight for two weeks before I figured out how to reinstall my floating valve/valve blocker after taking everything apart for my first good cleaning job.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 23:30   #18
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any further review about this?
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Old April 24th, 2010, 00:59   #19
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Actually yes --

I did some pretty extensive testing today...

I took out ALL my upgrades, returned the gun all the way back to stock and tested only different cylinder bulbs. The gun is a Tokyo Marui MEU... and despite being completely stock there still is some minor problems that'll give a "weak shot" every once in a while.

Completely stock I was getting roughly 260 FPS and about 40ish shots (propane at about 19*C)
Firefly cylinder bulb I was getting roughly 267 FPS and about 36ish shots (propane at about 19*C)
ARS one I was getting about 283 FPS and about 32ish shots (propane at about 19*C)
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Old April 25th, 2010, 17:39   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos View Post
Actually yes --

I did some pretty extensive testing today...

I took out ALL my upgrades, returned the gun all the way back to stock and tested only different cylinder bulbs. The gun is a Tokyo Marui MEU... and despite being completely stock there still is some minor problems that'll give a "weak shot" every once in a while.

Completely stock I was getting roughly 260 FPS and about 40ish shots (propane at about 19*C)
Firefly cylinder bulb I was getting roughly 267 FPS and about 36ish shots (propane at about 19*C)
ARS one I was getting about 283 FPS and about 32ish shots (propane at about 19*C)
I am assuming .2s but I know with GBB people like to use higher? Eitherwya nice results and for 15$, pshhh.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 00:49   #21
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that's really not bad at all, will try on my stock TM P226
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Old April 26th, 2010, 00:51   #22
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Originally Posted by Brayden View Post
I am assuming .2s but I know with GBB people like to use higher? Eitherwya nice results and for 15$, pshhh.
Yup everything was using BB Bastard Bio .20 BB's with standard valves
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Old April 26th, 2010, 01:33   #23
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Mine broke completey in half.. after thousands of rounds.

Anyways, but super glue and putting it back with the spring, it holds again.

These are pretty good.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 18:00   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos View Post
That's what I thought too...

I had a very good valve in there before.. but comparing them, the ARS one is WAY less restrictive.
Several things about this review bug me. In fact, I don't see it as much of a review for a couple of reasons.

It's not clear in your title, objective and conclusion that this was actually a head to head comparison between two aftermarket brands, and thus, I don't know how good of a review this is of the actual product. The Firefly bulb was only mentioned briefly in your method, but it's actually a very important part of your comparison.

For those who haven't noticed it, this is NOT a review of an original/stock cylinder bulb versus the ARS one. This is actually a review of a particular Firefly cylinder bulb (whether it's faulty or not won't be questioned) versus the ARS unit.

I've had several people ask me to confirm this review, and the first thing I've always pointed out is that a bone stock Marui MEU on propane should EASILY be able to push out over 290fps.



Just to make sure I wasn't on crack, I just pulled out a BRAND NEW Tokyo Marui MEU and launched an impromptu head-to-head comparison of the Tokyo Marui cylinder bulb vs the ARS cylinder bulb vs the Action cylinder bulb.

Sorry Amos, I don't mean to step on your toes, but I hate watching lemmings run off a cliff because they believe this product will give them a 40fps increase over their stock bulb (everybody seems to think that who's asked me about this product.)

I filled up this brand new MEU mag with propane, loaded up 5 rounds of KSC 0.20g BB, and unloaded it through my Xcortech 3200 chronograph.

Results:
315fps
313fps
312fps
310fps
308fps
Average (Stock1): 312fps

ZOMGGGGGG!!!!1 I have plenty stock Tokyo Marui cylinder bulbs for sale. $15 each.. 60fps increase over Amos' 252fps setup. Contact me via PM for sales. JK.

It must be the propane I'm using! Super awesome propane gives suuuupa fps!!!!!

Anyways, just to rule out a brand new mag and fresh propane, I cover that later....


I happen to have an ARS cylinder bulb here as well that was given to me as a test unit. I initially wrote it off because it's made of heavy brass, the edges are a bit rough and it lacks a rubber o-ring feature that I like on other brands. I prefer aluminum power up cylinder bulbs, because they're lighter which promotes faster transfer from firing to blowback mode. This saves gas. The o-ring also helps with saving gas and ensuring nice and solid blowback power.

Now was a good opportunity to test it, so I did. Installed it in to the MEU, loaded up some BBs and shot...

This was the result:
312
308
303
301
301
293
Average (ARS1): 303fps

The last shot was so weak, the following shot was an empty mag "thud", with no slide blowback. Huge gas consumption? I only got 6 shots out of it (barely)!

Just to rule out mag cooldown (or improper filling), I filled the mag again, let it warm to room temperature and tested again.

Results:
288
288
287
286
280
278
Average (ARS2): 285fps

WORSE!!! How can this be? Sometimes the way a cylinder bulb is installed, (particularly high flow ones), it can impede gas flow.
At this point, I decide to disassemble it and try again later. For now, I'll install the stock valve again to check the mag and gas issues I mentioned earlier. This was the results:

290
296
301
301
300
299
300
Average (Stock2): 298fps

It's still very good. This looks more normal for what's usually expected of stock Marui GBB's.

On to the Action cylinder bulb. Installed that and tested:

315
312
308
305
305
302
307
Average (Action1): 308fps


To rule out mag fill and gas issues, I filled the mag again, loaded several BBs in and let the mag warm to room temperature. Test 2:

320
316
313
312
313
315
Average (Action2): 315fps

This presented the highest results so far. I was actually expecting lower FPS than the first test.


Finally, I had to give the ARS unit one last chance. Installed it, ensured alignment and went to test:

315
313
312
313
310
308
309
Average (ARS3): 311fps

This is the best ARS performance so far, and it's still only on par with the first attempt with the original valve. So just to make sure there hasn't been any major changes between this last test with the ARS and the very first test with the stock valve, I decided to do one last test with the stock valve:

317
319
313
315
311
312
308
313
Average (Stock3): 314fps

This presented the second highest result of the entire roundup, and was the highest overall for the testing of the stock valve.


Conclusion:
Let's average out all of the results for each of the brands and look at a conclusion based on the overall:

Average(Stock): 308fps
Average(ARS): 300fps
Average(Action): 312fps

Power up cylinder bulbs don't give huge fps benefits. It's always been their marketing claim, but I've never noticed more than a 5fps increase (on average), regardless of the brand. In this particular case, the Action bulb presented a ~4fps increase, whereas the ARS bulb actually presented an ~8fps LOSS! Not much of an improvement there.

Finally, one thing that I noticed but didn't mention earlier in the report due to it's subjectivity is blowback feel. With the ARS cylinder bulb, as with most other full metal cylinder bulbs I've tried, the blowback power just wasn't as strong as brands that are synthetic (plastic, nylon/pom, etc) or metal with rubber o-rings to provide a good seal.

I've also used other brass bulbs before. The metal is inherently heavier than plastics or aluminum. The time it takes for it to transition from the firing portion of the cycle to transferring power to the blowback portion is slower, and as such, blowback generally doesn't feel as crisp as with a lighter bulb.



Final thoughts:
The results I garnered while testing the ARS product did not fail nor impress my expectations. In fact, it actually matched it. The rough machining edges, heavy weight, bulky walls, thinner output inner diameter and lack of a sealing o-ring were the first things I'd noticed and through testing, a conclusion has been drawn that this product is only a deficit to the performance (velocity, blowback speed) of your pistol, particularly if you are still using an original Tokyo Marui part.


As for Amos' results, airsoft GBB's in general are prone to a lot of inconsistencies due to varying temperatures, wide tolerances when casting pot metal, etc combined with the inconsistent nature of gas. While it is not impossible for a cylinder bulb of this style to give up to 20fps of boost, I find it unlikely. I've never seen it in all my years of testing many brands on various pistol platforms. Other brands I've tried are King Arms, RCC, KM, Firefly as well as a couple of other no name sample parts from small machine shops in Hong Kong that never made it to the big market.

Last edited by ILLusion; May 19th, 2010 at 18:12..
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Old May 19th, 2010, 20:42   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion View Post
Several things about this review bug me. In fact, I don't see it as much of a review for a couple of reasons.

It's not clear in your title, objective and conclusion that this was actually a head to head comparison between two aftermarket brands, and thus, I don't know how good of a review this is of the actual product. The Firefly bulb was only mentioned briefly in your method, but it's actually a very important part of your comparison.

For those who haven't noticed it, this is NOT a review of an original/stock cylinder bulb versus the ARS one. This is actually a review of a particular Firefly cylinder bulb (whether it's faulty or not won't be questioned) versus the ARS unit.

I've had several people ask me to confirm this review, and the first thing I've always pointed out is that a bone stock Marui MEU on propane should EASILY be able to push out over 290fps.



Just to make sure I wasn't on crack, I just pulled out a BRAND NEW Tokyo Marui MEU and launched an impromptu head-to-head comparison of the Tokyo Marui cylinder bulb vs the ARS cylinder bulb vs the Action cylinder bulb.

Sorry Amos, I don't mean to step on your toes, but I hate watching lemmings run off a cliff because they believe this product will give them a 40fps increase over their stock bulb (everybody seems to think that who's asked me about this product.)

I filled up this brand new MEU mag with propane, loaded up 5 rounds of KSC 0.20g BB, and unloaded it through my Xcortech 3200 chronograph.

Results:
315fps
313fps
312fps
310fps
308fps
Average (Stock1): 312fps

ZOMGGGGGG!!!!1 I have plenty stock Tokyo Marui cylinder bulbs for sale. $15 each.. 60fps increase over Amos' 252fps setup. Contact me via PM for sales. JK.

It must be the propane I'm using! Super awesome propane gives suuuupa fps!!!!!

Anyways, just to rule out a brand new mag and fresh propane, I cover that later....


I happen to have an ARS cylinder bulb here as well that was given to me as a test unit. I initially wrote it off because it's made of heavy brass, the edges are a bit rough and it lacks a rubber o-ring feature that I like on other brands. I prefer aluminum power up cylinder bulbs, because they're lighter which promotes faster transfer from firing to blowback mode. This saves gas. The o-ring also helps with saving gas and ensuring nice and solid blowback power.

Now was a good opportunity to test it, so I did. Installed it in to the MEU, loaded up some BBs and shot...

This was the result:
312
308
303
301
301
293
Average (ARS1): 303fps

The last shot was so weak, the following shot was an empty mag "thud", with no slide blowback. Huge gas consumption? I only got 6 shots out of it (barely)!

Just to rule out mag cooldown (or improper filling), I filled the mag again, let it warm to room temperature and tested again.

Results:
288
288
287
286
280
278
Average (ARS2): 285fps

WORSE!!! How can this be? Sometimes the way a cylinder bulb is installed, (particularly high flow ones), it can impede gas flow.
At this point, I decide to disassemble it and try again later. For now, I'll install the stock valve again to check the mag and gas issues I mentioned earlier. This was the results:

290
296
301
301
300
299
300
Average (Stock2): 298fps

It's still very good. This looks more normal for what's usually expected of stock Marui GBB's.

On to the Action cylinder bulb. Installed that and tested:

315
312
308
305
305
302
307
Average (Action1): 308fps


To rule out mag fill and gas issues, I filled the mag again, loaded several BBs in and let the mag warm to room temperature. Test 2:

320
316
313
312
313
315
Average (Action2): 315fps

This presented the highest results so far. I was actually expecting lower FPS than the first test.


Finally, I had to give the ARS unit one last chance. Installed it, ensured alignment and went to test:

315
313
312
313
310
308
309
Average (ARS3): 311fps

This is the best ARS performance so far, and it's still only on par with the first attempt with the original valve. So just to make sure there hasn't been any major changes between this last test with the ARS and the very first test with the stock valve, I decided to do one last test with the stock valve:

317
319
313
315
311
312
308
313
Average (Stock3): 314fps

This presented the second highest result of the entire roundup, and was the highest overall for the testing of the stock valve.


Conclusion:
Let's average out all of the results for each of the brands and look at a conclusion based on the overall:

Average(Stock): 308fps
Average(ARS): 300fps
Average(Action): 312fps

Power up cylinder bulbs don't give huge fps benefits. It's always been their marketing claim, but I've never noticed more than a 5fps increase (on average), regardless of the brand. In this particular case, the Action bulb presented a ~4fps increase, whereas the ARS bulb actually presented an ~8fps LOSS! Not much of an improvement there.

Finally, one thing that I noticed but didn't mention earlier in the report due to it's subjectivity is blowback feel. With the ARS cylinder bulb, as with most other full metal cylinder bulbs I've tried, the blowback power just wasn't as strong as brands that are synthetic (plastic, nylon/pom, etc) or metal with rubber o-rings to provide a good seal.

I've also used other brass bulbs before. The metal is inherently heavier than plastics or aluminum. The time it takes for it to transition from the firing portion of the cycle to transferring power to the blowback portion is slower, and as such, blowback generally doesn't feel as crisp as with a lighter bulb.



Final thoughts:
The results I garnered while testing the ARS product did not fail nor impress my expectations. In fact, it actually matched it. The rough machining edges, heavy weight, bulky walls, thinner output inner diameter and lack of a sealing o-ring were the first things I'd noticed and through testing, a conclusion has been drawn that this product is only a deficit to the performance (velocity, blowback speed) of your pistol, particularly if you are still using an original Tokyo Marui part.


As for Amos' results, airsoft GBB's in general are prone to a lot of inconsistencies due to varying temperatures, wide tolerances when casting pot metal, etc combined with the inconsistent nature of gas. While it is not impossible for a cylinder bulb of this style to give up to 20fps of boost, I find it unlikely. I've never seen it in all my years of testing many brands on various pistol platforms. Other brands I've tried are King Arms, RCC, KM, Firefly as well as a couple of other no name sample parts from small machine shops in Hong Kong that never made it to the big market.
Hmm, that's interesting. I was just thinking about the Action one with the little O-rings on it... and whether or not that actually helps. I take it it does?

Also, wouldn't a heavier floating valve result in more gas going down the barrel resulting in a higher muzzle velocity? Or is the ARS just too heavy for any INCREASES to occur? (Read the last statement as - I have a headache and can't really think straight right now, ignore me if I'm being stupid.)

Perhaps the ARS is designed to be used with a specific loading nozzle? ... no.. wait, I haven't encountered any difference in fitting of floating valves in loading nozzles from WE, Guarder, TM, Army, Action, KJW... never mind that last question.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 21:00   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion View Post
-snip-
Hrm... That's interesting... I'm going to guess that this is a problem with my pistol then..

It's been played around with quite a bit -- and I in no way am an "expert 1911 platform builder" .. When I got my GBB it was shooting pretty low for a TM...

You know what you're talking about and you've got much, much more experience and knowledge than me in this area, I'll update my main post with a disclaimer.

Once I get some spare time I'll go back into the MEU and take a closer look at the stock bulb... there may be some casting imperfections or something on it that I didn't see before. (This gun doesn't get used much to be honest, It's mostly just a holster trophy)
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Last edited by Amos; May 19th, 2010 at 21:12..
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Old May 20th, 2010, 11:24   #27
ILLusion
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Originally Posted by juicy View Post
Also, wouldn't a heavier floating valve result in more gas going down the barrel resulting in a higher muzzle velocity? Or is the ARS just too heavy for any INCREASES to occur? (Read the last statement as - I have a headache and can't really think straight right now, ignore me if I'm being stupid.)
Velocity output is determined by the overall volume allowed to pass through, as well as the shape of the outlet to direct the flow through the outlet.

The design of the ARS inlet is a bit weird, because it's opposite of what I've seen in the past. I suspected it would cause a turbulence with the output, but I wasn't aware of what effect that would have.

Could this be the cause for low velocity? Possible. The design goes completely opposite of what's worked in the past. Does that mean going against the grain couldn't work? No. But in this case, this application didn't work so well.

Heavy weight doesn't affect velocity. By the time it starts its cycle to close off gas flow to the barrel, the projectile has already left a relatively long time ago.

Heavy weight affects how quickly it will close. You want it to close quick to begin the slide cycle quickly, and to save gas. Secondly, you want it to close quickly for a snappy blowback feel.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 12:05   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion View Post
Velocity output is determined by the overall volume allowed to pass through, as well as the shape of the outlet to direct the flow through the outlet.

The design of the ARS inlet is a bit weird, because it's opposite of what I've seen in the past. I suspected it would cause a turbulence with the output, but I wasn't aware of what effect that would have.

Could this be the cause for low velocity? Possible. The design goes completely opposite of what's worked in the past. Does that mean going against the grain couldn't work? No. But in this case, this application didn't work so well.

Heavy weight doesn't affect velocity. By the time it starts its cycle to close off gas flow to the barrel, the projectile has already left a relatively long time ago.

Heavy weight affects how quickly it will close. You want it to close quick to begin the slide cycle quickly, and to save gas. Secondly, you want it to close quickly for a snappy blowback feel.
***OFF TOPIC RESPONSE HERE***

So ILLusion, does the Action bulb (aluminum or whatever it is, with O-rings) actually close quicker than the stock plastic floating valves?
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Old May 20th, 2010, 12:23   #29
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Old May 20th, 2010, 12:24   #30
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Originally Posted by juicy View Post
So ILLusion, does the Action bulb (aluminum or whatever it is, with O-rings) actually close quicker than the stock plastic floating valves?
Weight(Marui): 0.5g
Weight(Action): 0.8g
Weight(ARS): 2.4g

Based on those numbers, in theory, the Action valve wouldn't close quicker than the Marui one, but I don't have any tools to quantify this. Based on (subjective) feel, it doesn't seem to be heavy enough to noticeably impede performance.

The ARS valve, on the other hand, is almost 5 times heavier than the Marui valve, and 3 times heavier than the Action valve. The felt difference is also a bit more noticeable, but again, "feeling" is subjective, and I have no tools to measure time or perceived blowback power. Take this information for what it's worth.
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