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TM 1911a1 MEU GBB - Distance and Accuracy

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Old March 22nd, 2010, 19:28   #1
methodicalryan
 
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TM 1911a1 MEU GBB - Distance and Accuracy

Hi,

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right section of the forum but it seems that I don't have privileges yet to post in the Doctor's Corner ...

I have TM 1911a1 MEU GBB and was wondering if there was something wrong with my gun or if there are certain upgrades I can do to improve the distance and accuracy of my pistol.

I'm currently filling my mags with propane and using 0.2 bb's. When I stand 10 ft away from my target, the bb appears to be dropping as it lands lower on my target. Also, the position as to where the bb lands seems to shift left and right (off center), like it's very inconsistent.

I was wondering if this is how all TM 1911a1 MEU GBB's are, or if there was something wrong with mine. If so, what can I do to fix this problem, and what upgrades can I do to increase the distance on this pistol.

Thanks in advance.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 19:30   #2
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At that distance accuracy issues do suggest faulty parts, but just in case, get some quality heavy BBs (I use Madbull .3g in all of my guns) and see how it shoots then.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 19:31   #3
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Try turning up the hop up.. If its dropping and being inconsistent, the hop up may be completely off. If this is the case, the BB can be turning randomly, causing these inconsistencies.

Also, for a more predictable, consistent flight path, use heavier BBs than 0.20s. Try 0.25s (I actually usually use 0.28s in my GBB, especially for outdoors).
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 20:09   #4
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+1 on the heavier BBs, pistols love .25s
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 20:15   #5
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Pistols love heavier than 0.25g, I've gotten kills out to 140ft using my G19 and 0.36g BBs. Sure you have to aim a foot above the head in order to hit the chest, but holy crap do they hit hard and make the guys not want to trade fire with you. Lol

I use minimum 0.28g in my pistols, and try to keep my MK23 rounds as 0.30g when I can, largely when I use it in slient mode.

An example of heavier rounds for accuracy, at 30ft in my basement, I've gotten 1.5" groups using my MK23 GBB in silent mode, double action (slide doesn't cycle making for more accurate shots) firing. And with 0.28g in my G19, good groups end up being around 2-3". This coming from a barrel about as long as your index finger.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 20:21   #6
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I found with all the GBB's I used that .25's or higher are better.

FPS is not as key with them as your ideally not going to be at extreme long range or using during high motion.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 20:43   #7
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Thanks for all the info guys. I'll look into getting heavier BB's. Thanks!
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 21:34   #8
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Try simpler solutions first like adjusting the hopup and cleaning the barrel. Then try out heavier BBs. Don't assume the worse just yet, sometimes its not a big issue with no need to replace or upgrade.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 21:59   #9
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Hm... that's strange that it would be shooting off target. I hadn't checked its groupings prior to the CAPS event that you happen to see me at so I can't verify if it was doing that before. At CAPS I also wasn't checking for groupings since my goal was to hit a general area on the target. I can tell you, however, that no parts were swapped in or out since I've had possession of it and I've been extremely careful in keeping it in the same condition as when I acquired it from its original owner.

A few things you could try (pardon me if they've already been said, I'm just listing things that come to mind):
  • Clean the inner barrel (of excess lube)
  • Re-set hop up (turn it all the way down, then set it back to 70-75%)
  • Use good quality 0.25g+ BBs
  • Assess your shooting habits (a slight tilt could amplify small inaccuracies)
  • Verify the "straightness" of the sights (they should be fine, though)
  • Shoot with a few seconds in between each shot

See if any of the above will change anything.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 23:02   #10
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Alright, cool. Thanks for all the tips. I'll post the solution after trying a couple of things out.

Slono - No worries man, I totally trust ya, most likely it's the 0.20 BB's that I'm using.

Thanks guys!
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 23:06   #11
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guys...

it's CLEARLY a height over bore issue, the OP just THINKS that the BB is dropping.

Quote:
When I stand 10 ft away from my target, the bb appears to be dropping as it lands lower on my target.
You're shooting WAY too close, it's not your BB OR your gun, it's you.

Last edited by Skladfin; March 22nd, 2010 at 23:09..
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 23:32   #12
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KSC Glocks tend to shoot about 2" lower than where one aims at 30ft from what I've found. Is why I learned to shoot with the lowest part of the front sight dot in line with the top of the rear sight at 30ft, and that transitioned over to longer range outoor use too. Maybe this could be similar to the 1911 he's using? In cases like this a laser boresight is useful to help see where the bore is lined up compare to the rear sight, especially where the rear sight is non-adjustable for elevation. Trains the user to know where the BBs will hit at close range in relation to sight picture, which will benefit the user at longer ranges. Pistol sights, non-adjustable type, are rarely dead on, even at close range due to the manufacturer imitating the real steel version of the pistol, without taking into consideration the recoil factor. Training Glocks, the blue framed ones (I recall, could be the red one, been a year and a bit since i rea the Glock book cover to cover) available to LE only, fire a synthetic bullet at low velocity without much recoil. The barrel is angled upwards compared to the real thing because in the real pistol, by the time the bullet is at the end of the barrel, the recoil is starting to kick in and is raising the muzzle a slight bit. This has transversed over to the airsoft Glocks as well, likely common with other GBB pistols too.

Last edited by CDN_Stalker; March 22nd, 2010 at 23:34..
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 22:27   #13
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So I've tried using a heavier BB and it seems to have helped the grouping situation of the shots. But It still drops a bit... I think I'll try an even BB next time.

I'm a little confused with the whole height over bore issue. Like, the physics doesn't make sense to me atm. How is it that the BB will "SEEM" to drop to me when I'm 10ft away then when I'm like 30ft away?
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 22:56   #14
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Most all guns (rifle/pistols) have the bore tilted up a bit in relation to the sights. (google firearms ballistics...or external ballistics). Your line of sight (LOS) is straight...and let's assume level/horizontal.

The Bore Line is not level/horizontal...but rather slanted so the muzzle is a bit higher than the chamber end.

So when you point the sights at a target...your LOS is dead straight from your eye, through the rear sight, past the front sight and to the spot on the target.

The bore line, which sits about ~1cm lower than your pistol sights (depends on what pistol you have) is, at that moment, not really pointed at the same spot (i.e. if you drew a laser line down the bore it'd be pointed higher that your Point of Aim (POA).

Now the projectile comes out and immediately starts to drop...gravity...so it crosses your LOS pretty close to you then falls and crosses your LOS again. This is your "zero'd" range. Could be 30', could be 1000yrds. Depends on what you're shooting.

However...for airsoft guns where backspin is applied that creates lift on the BB, the BB doesn't follow a traditional ballistic path. It's more straight out and then drops. There might be some ballistic correction built into the pistol...but I doubt it.

Airsoft pistols are also horrible target shooting guns. The inaccuracies built into the system are so variable that you can only pick up general trends...not precision target shoot.

At 10' though, the group you shoot should be fairly small. If you are shooting well and the group is small (even if it isn't on the POA) then the pistol is itself accurate...just not hitting where you're aiming

Pistol shooting is a lot less accurate than rifle shooting. The way you grip the pistol, how hard one hand squeezes vs. the other and the way you "pull" the trigger can greatly influence your shot. Shoot inconsistently, poor form and freehand shooting will result in lousy groups. If you're shooting low 6 o'clock, try placing the tip of your trigger finger higher up on the trigger (so you aren't "yanking" the pistol down as you pull). Even on a "straight pull" 1911 you can end up "torquing the shot" by pulling on different parts of the trigger. Long double action pistols are worse for it though. That's not even assuming that you might be flinching.

Only the pad of your fingertip should be touching the trigger, the rest of your trigger finger shouldn't be touching the pistol, you should be gently/smoothly pulling the trigger back until it trips the sear and the pistol fires. You should be able to pull so smoothly and evenly that your sights do not even move on target. The "break" of the shot should come as a surprise.

If your shooting form is good, your group of shots are tight(ish for airsoft), then your sights are off. Adjust them or ditch the pistol because you can't adjust fixed airsoft pistol sights much. (on some you can file down the front sight if it's shooting low...on some you can drift the front or rear sight to take out major windage correction).

It could also be a variety of other issues like the nub being off center on the hopup rubber/bucking...a scratch/cut on the bucking...the inner barrel being off in the outer barrel. Hopup may be applied inconsistently or not at all. Lots and lots of reasons.

If you're in doubt, get someone who's shot a fair bit to give it a try. It's always worth a second opinion.

And...you've got to shoot at least 20' away to see anything significant.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 01:04   #15
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Wow, that was extremely in depth and thorough. You definitely know your stuff, and I Definitely need to learn (You = Jedi, Me = padawan ). Thanks for spending the time to write all that info out. I'll give some of your advice a try and see what happens, but I think I need to attend a QS session and get some proper training - a critique of my form..etc.

You Said:
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Originally Posted by m102404 View Post
Airsoft pistols are also horrible target shooting guns. The inaccuracies built into the system are so variable that you can only pick up general trends...not precision target shoot.
And so I'm curious about IPSC and the airsoft pistols they're using. Although the shooters are probably Pro, but their pistols look like their built to be extremely accurate for precision target shooting. How are their pistols different from other standard GBB pistols?

Sorry if this question doesn't belong in this thread, or if it's an extremely newb question, but it just came to my mind when you mentioned...
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