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Concern about GBB rifle + Propane gas

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Old March 21st, 2010, 10:08   #1
zollen
 
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Concern about GBB rifle + Propane gas

My friend recently got a gas blowback rifle with realistic recoil action and a couple of propane gas tanks. I am kind of worry for him because if even some internal components are not perfectly aligned, they could cause a small spark during recoils in a propane filled environment. The problem could be relived somewhat if the rifle is well lubricated but this is a big IF.


I am very new to this airsoft arena and I would like to hear your opinions. Do you think my concern is justified?

This is a serious topic. I would be very appreciated if we could keep the discussion professional and serious. Thanks.

Last edited by zollen; March 21st, 2010 at 10:11..
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Old March 21st, 2010, 10:26   #2
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it's true that it's better to test your GBB/R in a well ventilated area if you don't want to fill a room with propane, which would be dangerous when you light up the next cigaretBOOM

other than that, I don't think GBB/R metal is even hard enough to produce a spark.
Anyway a GBB getting lit on fire because of a spark during fonctionnement is something unheard of yet.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 11:34   #3
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It's not possible unless you're actually trying to light it on fire (ie. shooting your GBB in a small confined area and smoking at the same time). And even then it's probably going to be hard unless you're deliberately trying to do it. Only a small amount of propane is actually expelled, not really enough to catch fire and plus the valve that outputs propane is only depressed for a short period of time and when the slide goes back forward the knocker stops pressing on the valve.

So no the concerns aren't warranted.

PS: Green Gas = Propane so switching to green gas won't prevent the "off chance" of it blowing up in your face.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 14:41   #4
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Originally Posted by zollen View Post
Do you think my concern is justified?
no
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Old March 21st, 2010, 14:47   #5
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pretty stable gas.....don't worry about it.....like smoking next to the gas pumps.....
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Old March 21st, 2010, 14:52   #6
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Originally Posted by LoveMyStubby View Post
pretty stable gas.....don't worry about it.....like smoking next to the gas pumps.....
You go ahead then and smoke by gas pumps. I am aware that the spark is what instantly lights up gasoline vapor, and that open flame and embers are less likely but do you want every soccor mom freakin out on you?
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Old March 21st, 2010, 17:06   #7
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Propane is generally considered incapable of ignition at concentrations less then 2%

Therefor I highly doubt that a GBB rifle's magazine contains sufficent gas to saturate an area to that extent.

Having said this, one could still ignite the propane at its source (ie during firing) however it is neigh impossible and even if it did com bust, the amount would be insignificant and its released energy would not be enough to cause serious harm to anyone.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 17:28   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donster View Post
you worrying about this is like lipo users worrying about their batteries exploding.
Lipos explode ALOT more (ie, rarely) than GBB's detonate (ie, NEVER)
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Old March 21st, 2010, 17:33   #9
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Originally Posted by Amos View Post
Lipos explode ALOT more (ie, rarely) than GBB's detonate (ie, NEVER)
Umm.. its actually impossible for a GBB to detonate. Infact the temperature required to auto ignite propane is close to 1000 degrees. At that temperature the gun, mag, you, the trees, your house would have already caught fire or melted.


Lithium polymer batteries on the other hand have a maximum safe operating temperature of 160 degrees.

Its just the theory of mass misconception. for example MSG or monosodium glutamate, most people believe it is dangerous and bad for your health. However it is actually the most studied food additive in the last 20 years and has never shown to cause any kind of adverse side effect when consumed in normal amounts. BUT people still think its bad for you.

Same thing with LIPO batteries and Propane. People do not understand the chemistry or the physics of these things and thus fear them based off what they assume and what they can infer. its a natural human reaction.

Last edited by Rugger_can; March 21st, 2010 at 17:37.. Reason: just expanding my argument.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 17:36   #10
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They don't mean auto ignite though. They mean a spark catching from the parts hitting each other inside, and then igniting the propane. Which is way more possible than auto igniting, but still way way less possible than a Lipo overheating and exploding.

But yeah no worries there is no chance that this would happen ever.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 17:48   #11
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I think you would be hard pressed to get any kind of spark from stainless steel (nozzle) on brass (cylinder).
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Old March 21st, 2010, 17:48   #12
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Originally Posted by ujiro View Post
They don't mean auto ignite though. They mean a spark catching from the parts hitting each other inside, and then igniting the propane. Which is way more possible than auto igniting, but still way way less possible than a Lipo overheating and exploding.

But yeah no worries there is no chance that this would happen ever.
The way that energetic gases pass their ignition makes this physically impossible. Only a catastrophic failure of containment could result in it exploding.


In any case, we are in agreement.


GBBR using propane will not explode.

It is unlikely that a GBB will spark, as (usually) they are made of magnesium in most cases. Which is funny because it is a HIGHLY FLAMMABLE ELEMENT, capable of burning in pure nitrogen, oxygen, carbondioxide and even water! thats right most aeg's are made from highly flammable material! OMG... I just realized this, everyone should send me their aeg's and gbbr and I will properly and safely dispose of them to prevent any harm.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 19:57   #13
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[C3H8 + 5 O2 → 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + heat] This is the hydrocarbon combustion of propane, this illustration means for every molecule of propane there needs to be five molecules of oxygen to ignite, which means you can put a match in front of a GBB and it will put the match out (don't try this at home) because there is not enough oxygen to complete the reaction, that said, there is not enough oxygen inside a GBB to facilitate a reaction, even if there is a hot enough spark.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 20:03   #14
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I am skeptical of your first statement though. It needs 5 mols of oxygen for every mol of propane for 100% complete combustion. Incomplete combustion exists, and there is air surrounding the front of the GBB. I would NOT RECOMMEND PUTTING A MATCH OR LIGHTER IN FRONT OF YOUR GBB. This may or may not be able to stay below the flammability limits. 2-10% is the range. It may momentarily stay in this range, which could cause a flare. Not worth trying what so ever.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 20:16   #15
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When you run a stove off a propane tank, the tank is upright and your using the vapor. When you fill a GBB mag, you have the can upsidedown and your filling it with LIQUID propane.
It's significantly more difficult to ignite propane that's being fired from an airsoft gun. Infact you can shoot your pistol at a fire 3 feet away and nothing will happen, trust me, I've done it! With really dissapointing results, I was hoping for a fireball....

The fact is, if propane was that dangerous, it wouldn't be used in 90% of gas pistols.
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