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Performance Recommendation for sub 300mm Precision Barrels

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Old April 20th, 2017, 10:50   #1
ao_tenshi
 
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Exclamation Performance Recommendation for sub 300mm Precision Barrels

Hey guys,

Im looking for some recommendations on a short barrel anywhere between 165mm to 275mm range. My stock barrel is 165mm (super short) and hoping to increase consistency through a better quality barrel.

Right now, I have my eyes on the PDI 6.01 247mm or Prometheus EG 260mm.

Doing some research I've came across this interesting article, which summarized that tighter barrels are better for short range, as the following:

"Best CQB barrel: PDI 6.01 (Economical choice: Madbull 6.01, PDI Raven, or Angel Custom 6.01)
Best Mid-Range barrel: Prometheus 6.03 (Economical choice: Madbull 6.03 or Matrix 6.03)
Best Long Range barrel: PDI 6.05 or Orga 6.23 if enough air can be supplied (Economical choice: None, high performance = high cost)
Best All-Around-Purpose Barrel: Miracle barrels (Work well in AEG platforms)"

I guess my questions are, at the short lengths side:

a) is 6.01mm better than 6.03? (assuming barrel is same high quality)
b) does 165mm vs 247mm vs 260mm make a significant difference?


Thanks in advance!
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Old April 20th, 2017, 12:03   #2
ao_tenshi
 
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I have went with the Prommy 6.03 after all... wanted to avoid possibility of bb jams with the 6.01. But nonetheless, would be interesting to hear some opinions on the sub-300mm barrels I'm guessing some would argue that tbb is not even needed at this length?
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Old April 20th, 2017, 19:41   #3
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I use a vfc psalm of david inner in my p90 and works just dandy its a 6.03 and paired with maple leaf bucking and concave nub it shoots lasers out to 210 feet at around 320 fps
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Old April 20th, 2017, 21:35   #4
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The bore of a barrel does *absolutely nothing* to affect range or accuracy.
tighter barrels may foul quicker, leading to accuracy loss due to fouling, but as long as you keep your barrel clean you won't have an issue.

And that article you read was completely bogus. Case and point: they actually recommend PDI raven (PDI's competition for madbull aluminum and angel custom, IE: cheap garbage to fight cheap garbage), angel custom, and miracle barrels, all of which are crap. And they recommend the PDI over the prometheus for long range, which means they didn't do any research at all, because the prometheus barrel is actually the better of the two.

Prometheus 6.03 and PDI 6.05 are the best, period.
Best economical barrel would be the madbull 6.03 stainless.

And the whole idea of a "CQB barrel" is completely ridiculous. If a barrel is more accurate at short range than another barrel, then it's going to be more accurate at long range, making the idea moot. And if the purpose is to have a barrel that's just "good enough" for CQB, then just keep your stock barrel instead of spending $40 on a spitball gun, in which case you'd be wasting money on a new barrel that offers no advantage over a stock barrel, and the perfect barrel is just an extra $10-$20 anyway.

Give this a read, as it's based on physics, not unverified personal opinion.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=166583
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Old April 20th, 2017, 21:52   #5
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Also, don't overestimate the effect of a barrel swap on precision. Your gun is not going to magically start shooting lasers when you swap the barrel. In order to use a quality barrel to its full potential, you must first work on perfect compression, and you must use a good hop-up rubber. Also, some guns have crap hop-up chambers and will need some tweaking before they can reach their full potential. All these upgrades will make a gun shoot great even with a stock barrel, the upgraded barrel is just the cherry on the sundae. A nice touch, but not really required. Actually, you'll find that nowadays a lot of people will skip the barrel upgrade completely and keep their money to buy more guns/gear/mags/etc.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 15:58   #6
ao_tenshi
 
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Great read on that post re barrels!
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Old April 21st, 2017, 18:09   #7
lurkingknight
 
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omg I would disregard anything that mentions angel customs as a quality brand.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 11:19   #8
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Old May 24th, 2017, 11:45   #9
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How about Orga barrels ?
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Old May 24th, 2017, 12:08   #10
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Orga is good but you only need widebores for LMGs
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Old May 24th, 2017, 13:17   #11
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I have a M4, I just wanted to know more about Orga compared to Prometheus, PDI or Madbull.

Also, how does the material affect the performances ? People tend to say stainless steel is the best but how is it better than aluminium or brass ?
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Old May 24th, 2017, 14:24   #12
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How wide are we talking about? AEGs have restricted air volume, which makes using wide bores a bit tricky. These barrels are better suited to gas guns or spring bolt action rifles with large cylinders.

The advantage of stainless steel is that its very though, so it doesn't degrade fast. They also resist oxidation, which further helps with longevity. Technically, they also vibrate a lot less, although how much this actually affects accuracy is still left to debate in the Airsoft world. The prevailing thinking right now is that vibrations of the inner barrel has very little to no effect on accuracy. Not all stainless steel barrels are equal. A low quality stainless steel barrel like those 30$USD China-made barrels will usually not perform any better than a stock brass barrel, and will sometimes be even worse. If you invest n a stainless steel barrel, you should stick with Prometheus/Laylax and PDI. They are the two brands with the best bore quality and so far leave all other manufacturers in the dust.

Brass is the middle ground, on one hand, it self-lubricates, so it reduces friction. But brass will oxidize with time, and its not as durable as stainless steel, although it will take many tens if not hundreds of thousands of BBs to alter the bore significantly. With that said, brass is a good material for barrels, and much cheaper to manufacture than stainless. When new, and later once polished or lapped, they perform extremely well for a long time.

Aluminum is the softest and least durable of the three. It oxidizes really fast, in days usually. They tend to leave residues on BBs, which may affect accuracy slightly. They are not all that durable, especially if you use cheap BBs. A lot of manufacturers will make aluminum barrels with some sort of coating. It helps mitigate the problem, but not all coatings are equal. It's buyer beware. If your aluminum barrel is not coated, you can lap/polish it often to keep it in good shape, but that's a lot of work. You are much better off changing an aluminum barrel for a brass or stainless steel barrel.
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Old May 24th, 2017, 17:49   #13
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aluminum barrels have to be coated, and although the anodizing coating is very hard, the material beneath it is not. So it gets scratched anyway.
Doesn't matter if you can make it to the same accuracy as the PDI barrels or not, ultimately they're disposable since they're so easy to scratch. Lose 2 barrels and you might as well have bought a PDI in the first place.

Brass is good. Fairly hard, good temperature stability, great for machining. Downside is it can tarnish. It mostly gets a bad rep because stock barrels are brass and are typically low quality. But there's nothing wrong with a high end brass barrel as long as you keep it clean.

Stainless is harder, resists oxidation better than anything else, doesn't need to be coated, and holds excellent tolerances in machining. Best material to be used.
But there's still tolerances in the industry, JUST because it's stainless, doesn't automatically mean it's GOOD.
The industry standards are the PDI 6.01/6.05 lines, and the prometheus 6.03 lines.
prometheus ASH and PDI raven lines tend to be sub-par, as they are meant as competition to cheaper lines. It's like Ferrari making a $35,000 car. People will buy it because it's a Ferrari, but it'll be complete garbage.
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Old May 25th, 2017, 09:02   #14
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Thank you both very much. I wouldn't go with a 6.01 barrel anyway since it may cause more problems than greater performance. I would stick with 6.03 just got to choose between stainless steel or brass.

I mean my G&G GC16 shoots very good out of the box. I might even just change the hop-up and maybe the bucking for a Promy Purple and flat hop everything (even though G&G's green bucking is excellent from what I've heard).
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Old May 25th, 2017, 09:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumblins View Post
Thank you both very much. I wouldn't go with a 6.01 barrel anyway since it may cause more problems than greater performance. I would stick with 6.03 just got to choose between stainless steel or brass.

I mean my G&G GC16 shoots very good out of the box. I might even just change the hop-up and maybe the bucking for a Promy Purple and flat hop everything (even though G&G's green bucking is excellent from what I've heard).
If you buy a barrel, buy a PDI or Prometheus, don't "upgrade" to a brass barrel when you already have a brass barrel in your G&G gun. G&G stock barrels are pretty decent, to get a significant difference in accuracy, you'd need to upgrade to a high end barrel such a PDI/Prommy, otherwise you're paying a significant sum for little gain.

If you want to improve your barrel performance for cheap, and you have ample free time, lap your stock G&G barrel using a method like this: https://sites.google.com/site/hsarmo...elappingmanual
As a bonus, improving your stock barrel is a lot more eco-friendly than buying a new barrel.
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