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Legal FPS Limit -- I know. I know.

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Old April 18th, 2017, 20:10   #1
DarkDream
 
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Legal FPS Limit -- I know. I know.

So, this discussion has come up hundreds of times in the history of airsoft, but locally here on Vancouver Island there is a group of players (now hosting 50+ people per game) who are constantly being educated about how if your gun is firing UNDER 366fps it's illegal to have in Canada.

It hurts my brain. Can anyone who speaks legal-eeze please give me a proper argument as to why forcing your gun higher and higher (some as high as 480fps play with this group, who now dominates the island play) is bad... just simply bad and dangerous, as well verify that in fact LOWER than 366 is NOT illegal.

Help, for my sanity and safety.

(Veterans are more than welcome to chime in)

Sorry if its in the wrong place, but every time someone asks how to lower the fps on their gun, the response ends up being "Don't lower it! Bring it up!"
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Last edited by DarkDream; April 18th, 2017 at 20:48.. Reason: Apologies
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Old April 18th, 2017, 22:16   #2
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Originally Posted by Drake View Post
The laws aren't written for airsoft specifically. Pellet guns in the 500 fps range are well past the 5.7j limit (for a .22cal pellet gun, 5.7j is reached closer to 400 fps).

For airsoft (using .2g BBs) you'd be in the 800 fps range to reach 5.7j, so for all practical purposes this doesn't apply to airsoft.

Beyond the 500fps/5.7j limit the airgun is considered a firearm. There's no such thing as an "uncontrolled firearm" in the criminal code: that's a CBSA term. If it's below the limit, its a non-firearm (such as an airgun). HOWEVER, if it's below 366fps (w/ .2g bb) it becomes a REPLICA FIREARM which is prohibited (illegal). Therefor as T-Cactus indicated, the number you need to be concerned about is that 366fps minimum.

ANY non-firearm (airguns, airsoft, replicas) used in the commission of a crime will be treated as a firearm. e.g., you threaten someone with an airsoft pistol on the street, it WILL be treated as if you'd used a real pistol.
Long version minus the pig latin:
criminal code is what governs the guns INSIDE CANADA
CBSA is what governs the guns coming INTO Canada; difference being they are not YET INSIDE CANADA. 366 fps is what is required to import, once you have it you can do w/e you want with it.

Read more here: http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=166428&

tl;dr verison; non-enforceable law under peaceful circumstances
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Old April 19th, 2017, 00:52   #3
ThunderCactus
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The CBSA memo about the importation of airsoft guns states that they "must shoot over 366fps with a .20 or else they *MIGHT* be considered a prohibited replica firearm."
The CBSA, the very source of the whole mess, states very clearly in plain writing that there isn't any certainty about it.

The RCMP, after learning about the CBSA's new policy, took it upon themselves to, through no actual legal process, put up a memo on their website bridging the import regulation into domestic ownership. Which, to date, they have never enforced anywhere, because they can't.

The canadian criminal code (AKA "the law") makes no mention what so ever of airsoft guns having minimum muzzle energies. Doesn't matter what the RCMP thinks is the law, if that law doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist.

-There's no minimum fps limit
-RCMP's website isn't going to hold up in the court of law
-multiple airsoft stores still sell guns under 350fps
-just about ever airsoft arena in canada has a limit under 350fps and they're not exactly well hidden secrets, some police and RCMP officers actually frequent some of them to play
-no judge is going to convict a person for tuning an airsoft gun below 366fps for the distinct purpose of REDUCING the chance of bodily harm to others

If they're being idiots, just point out the 2 major facts:
-A memo on the RCMP's website isn't legally binding
-Every airsoft arena in Canada openly operates under 366fps and is well known to police
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old April 19th, 2017, 01:08   #4
Ricochet
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If you own an Airsoft gun that follows all of these "ahem", guidelines, and it breaks, now shooting zero FPS, is it now a super-dangerous-illegal-killeveryone-replica?

Airsoft guns are legal for ownership and responsible use. Period. If I had a Mike, I'd drop him... Has anyone seen Mike?
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Last edited by Ricochet; April 19th, 2017 at 08:34..
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Old April 19th, 2017, 04:14   #5
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Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
... If I had a Mike, I'd drop him... Has avonyone seen Mike?
I'm right here.

What group on the island is spouting this malarkey?
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Old April 20th, 2017, 05:53   #6
Telsler
 
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VFGPA for one. their rules state, and I quote, "Note: The MED classes begin at 1.24 Joules instead of 0 because of Canadian firearms regulations
around “replicas” vs uncontrolled firearms (air powered firearms below 5.7 Joules of muzzle energy). " I would bet Wolfpack is the same way cause the same guy runs them both, but I don't have access to their rules so... He also has been recently telling people in NAA the same thing..."under 366 is illegal"

Edit:
Oh, this is cute. dude I mentioned before got into an argument on the NAA fb page. he quoted that debunked rcmp memo as undeniable proof, and said everything else is "misinformation repeated so often it becomes gospel".

Last edited by Telsler; April 20th, 2017 at 13:17.. Reason: new information
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Old April 20th, 2017, 22:14   #7
ThunderCactus
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Pretty sure a bunch of us are arguing with one of the guys in question right now on ASC facebook lol
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old April 20th, 2017, 22:22   #8
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Originally Posted by Telsler View Post
VFGPA for one. their rules state, and I quote, "Note: The MED classes begin at 1.24 Joules instead of 0 because of Canadian firearms regulations



Sounds like someone got tired of getting spring changes to play indoors.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 23:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telsler View Post
VFGPA for one. their rules state, and I quote, "Note: The MED classes begin at 1.24 Joules instead of 0 because of Canadian firearms regulations
around “replicas” vs uncontrolled firearms (air powered firearms below 5.7 Joules of muzzle energy). " I would bet Wolfpack is the same way cause the same guy runs them both, but I don't have access to their rules so... He also has been recently telling people in NAA the same thing..."under 366 is illegal"

Edit:
Oh, this is cute. dude I mentioned before got into an argument on the NAA fb page. he quoted that debunked rcmp memo as undeniable proof, and said everything else is "misinformation repeated so often it becomes gospel".


SHOW ME. SHOW ME THE STATUTE THAT SAYS THAT 366 FPS AIRSOFT BOOOOOOULET IS ILLEGALS

I DEFY him to find a single piece of case law and applicable legislature that sets the precedents of the enforcability of the 366 FPS rule as an arrestable offense based off of possession alone. I will FORTHWITH turn myself in along with all my "prohibited" firearms in a heartbeat.
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No, you're going to stop and find someone near you in this subform.

Then you will pay that person to fix it for you.

Then you're not going to let your friends play with anything unless it's made by Fisher Price.

Last edited by RainyEyes; April 20th, 2017 at 23:53..
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Old April 20th, 2017, 23:30   #10
ThunderCactus
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Until LEO starts sending letters to airsoft businesses, selling guns under 366 and forcing people to downgrade under 366 to play indoors, there's really no reason for individuals to worry.
Not like RCMP is gonna roll up to an airsoft game and chrono everyone's pistols
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old April 20th, 2017, 23:37   #11
Ricochet
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Guns are owned under 366, guns are sold under 366, guns break and shoot under 366, the hop changes and it's now under 366, the temperature is too high or low and it's under 366, your gas reservoir runs low and it's under 366, you get shitty BBs or an air leak and it's under 366, "your mom" and it's under 366.

Can't fix stupid. That shit is permanent.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 10:37   #12
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Wait people are complaining about others players guns firing to low of an FPS? What kind of backwards world are we living in?
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 23:49   #13
ThunderCactus
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RIGHT??? just silly
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 04:05   #14
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VFGPA is hosting solely on the premise of this singular individual. He is also an "elder" of Wolfpack. He not only claims that he has undeniable proof from the RCMP, he also adds almost as if a threat, that if your gun fires over 366 that it WILL cause you problems with law enforcement.

They also claim that joules has nothing to do with it, as your bb can't get up to velocity with .20gs so they chrono with .25s
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 04:35   #15
Gato
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See, I keep considering moving out of Ontario, then I hear shit like this. I thought we had stupidity in the ONTARIO Airsoft scene....

Tell him to take his Wolfpack "elder" status and shove it, he's wrong. Go look around, the RCMP documents are there, with dates and everything, that state the IMPORT requirments, which do not apply once IN COUNTRY.
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Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
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