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Old June 3rd, 2013, 23:20   #31
ThunderCactus
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So far test results are looking good
Nothing drastic yet, but small advantages over high quality rubbers as were predicted
Nothing measured on pen and paper yet, working on that lol

Anyone else noticing gains?
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 23:58   #32
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Everyone in Edmonton area has gone R-Hop / ER hop. It's a night and day difference when compared to stock guns.

My opinion in shooting distance and accuracy worst to best,

Stock
Stock + SCS
Stock chamber + upgraded rubber + SCS
Stock Chamber + upgraded Rubber + SCS + Upgraded Bore
Upgrade Chamber, Upgraded Bore, upgraded Rubber, SCS
same as above line with barrel shimmed + ear plug mod variants.
PTW hopup - STOCK
Upgraded Chamber, Bore, Rubber, R HOP
Upgraded Chamber, Bore, Rubber, R HOP w/ M nub mod
PTW Tackleberry Mod done properly
Upgraded Chamber, Bore, Rubber, ER HOP w/ EM nub mod


EDIT:
depending on the hopup chamber in your gun that may actually be a far better upgrade. Typically a SCS + Rubber upgrade is the cheapest and best bang for buck upgrade. Costs ~10-15 dollars.

EDIT 2:
The PTW mod done properly IMO is just above R hop + M nub + barrel shim + ear plug mod variants. This comes down to the technical skill and time spent doing said work. PTW hopup and components interface in such a way that they don't require barrel shimming or the earplug mod (technically ensuring the buffer cap is shimmed properly -is- the same as the earplug mod.
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Last edited by Azathoth; June 4th, 2013 at 00:06..
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Old June 4th, 2013, 00:18   #33
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Off topic a bit but, have you noticed the SCS to actually make some sort of measurable difference?
We've been putting them in and taking them out of guns here in Mb since they came out and I've never noticed any difference between using them and regular hop nubs.
From what we've observed in the field, whatever performance that may be gained with an ARS rubber/SCS combo is always outdone by a V shape rubber like the firefly or PDI-W
I can see it making a far more noticeable difference if it were somehow used with a flat rubber, but it seems the thickness of the hop rubber's bump absorbs whatever radius is supposed to be deformed into the rubber...
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Old June 4th, 2013, 00:37   #34
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Aren't you supposed to cut-out the bump when installing SCS?

If it was used with the bump, yeah, it's kinda useless and I can see why there is no difference in the shot.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:31   #35
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I noticed no difference with a systema bucking and scs spacer, compared to factory nub with the same bucking in my m14.

I left the scs in there though.

I am excited to give the R-hop a try once I get back into the swing of things. I had a very nicely hop moded PTW carbine I was using last year that could sling .28's amazingly far with great accuracy. M130 cylinder, 420 fps. I spent alot of time fiddling with it and measuring max range. I am curious to see if the R-hop can actually top it with a similar FPS setup.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:59   #36
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I cranked my P* STG up to 540's with .2's, using .28's I was still able to get good effects with an R-Hop.

One day I might buy the red nozzle, and really take things to town and see how well it can go.

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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:44   #37
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So you're at 540fps and still able to use a regular length R-hop?
I'm guessing the ER-Hop is exclusively only useful for super heavy BBs then...
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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:49   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Off topic a bit but, have you noticed the SCS to actually make some sort of measurable difference?
We've been putting them in and taking them out of guns here in Mb since they came out and I've never noticed any difference between using them and regular hop nubs.
From what we've observed in the field, whatever performance that may be gained with an ARS rubber/SCS combo is always outdone by a V shape rubber like the firefly or PDI-W
I can see it making a far more noticeable difference if it were somehow used with a flat rubber, but it seems the thickness of the hop rubber's bump absorbs whatever radius is supposed to be deformed into the rubber...
Wouldn't a REAPs bucking be exactly what an SCS should be? I've used both and no noticible difference myself - compared to a Prometheus Purple and nub.

I have also tried shaving off the mound on a sleeve to use the SCS - you're exactly right by saying the sleeve isn't thick enough to engage the actual bb.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:49   #39
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Yeah. Ideally the SCS just turns a flat rubber into a V-notch rubber.
The advantage I can see is it being more stable since there's less rubber to give, flex, and bounce.
Not sure most chambers have the reach to lower the SCS into a flat rubber though?
Anyway flat is the way to go these days.

My favorite quote so far has been on the indiana airsoft forums;
"using a longer contact patch on the bb it exerts force over a longer distance and period of time with the potential to give slightly more consistent Hop. Mind you this is a difference between .0001 and .0002 of a second, so it is statistically minimal difference."

statistically minimal? ITS A 100% INCREASE!!! lol
It's one of those guys that would rather disprove an upgrade with physics, without truly understanding what physics are actually at play, rather than test it in the field, THEN explain why it does what it does.

Last edited by ThunderCactus; June 4th, 2013 at 10:52..
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:27   #40
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I also have one of these equipped in my hop up arsenal for testing - you'll notice the curve in the nub unlike the prommy bridge or flat nubs.

The sleeve is also very similar to the PDI-W Hold - same contact points, although a very noticible difference in actually sleeve length.

Edit: Although with any flat nub i've tried (Prometheus, X High-Tech) like the SCS, all of my adjusment arms have never been able to engage well enough when the mound is shaved off.

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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:44   #41
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To use the scs propperly you have to do two things.
First is to remove the hump/mound on the rubber or use a smooth one like the promy purple one.
Next is to do 1 of two things either mod the arm by building it up more so the scs can enter the hop window (about 2mm or the same as the original mound on a given hop rubber)
Or you can cut some squares out of an old rubber and use that to create the spacer needed to allow the scs to apply hop. If you just use an scs along with a shaved/promy smooth rubber you will find that even at full hop there is hardly enough hop for 20's.
I have gone the route of using promy smooth rubbers with the bridge style buckings. I find itll give the same centering effect of a scs AND the larger contact area provided by an rhop.
I think the scs should work ok with an rhop but ghe bridge or flat type nub/tensioner should be ideal as itll provide the largest posible contact area for the bb.
With the promy smooth rubber and bridge tensioner in stock hop up chambers and madbull 6.03 tightbores i have great results. I run 400ish fps and can hop 30 and 32 bbs with the hop only set to mid way.
Aside from the quietness and ability to run 36 and 40bb's in my 500fps bolt action i find not much of an advantage these days to runing the BA as the range advantage is only small tho effective range is slightly greater due to the higher energy and energy retension in the bolt action. But really the main advantage is stealth with the BA.
200 plus feet with an AEG and promy combo vs 300ish feet with the BA in lezs dense areas yes the BA still rocks but once places fill in and maximum ranges are rarely achievable the aeg is far more usefull
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:53   #42
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I find it odd you dont get enough pressure out of the promy ones. They are made in such a way that the nub itself has the additional hight to it to push it further into the window.the one pictured seems a lil short but it could just appear that way due to the angle of the pic.
Unlike the scs that needs some type of spacer to work the promy ones work fine in my m4's and mp5k.
As for the sleeve having a nub on it like the w hold i find that redundant as the reason for the rhop flat and bridge tensioners is to provide a larger contact area for the bb. With some kind of hump in the way (most likely in the middle of the area the nub is pushing on) itll be like. Lil pressure -LOTs of pressure-lil pressure.so in fact your really not taking advantage of the larger area as the main source of hop would be the hump/mound. Anyone see what i mean?
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I also have one of these equipped in my hop up arsenal for testing - you'll notice the curve in the nub unlike the prommy bridge or flat nubs.

The sleeve is also very similar to the PDI-W Hold - same contact points, although a very noticible difference in actually sleeve length.

Edit: Although with any flat nub i've tried (Prometheus, X High-Tech) like the SCS, all of my adjusment arms have never been able to engage well enough when the mound is shaved off.

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Old June 4th, 2013, 12:07   #43
Rabbit
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I'm following - I would never use the W-hold types of sleeves with the flat nubs - the X High-Tech nub just came with that type of sleeve as well as this one pictured.

I used the Blue softer prometheus nub and it actually just squished around (used a VFC clear hop up chamber to watch exactly what was happening - smart right? ) which misformed the nub

I still have the black harder prometheus flat nub that I might give a shot with your idea of shaving down the mound and adding rubber from another hop up - unless ofcourse it actually doesn't need that extra bit of material.

Side note: Apologies to the OP if we're totally derailing your entire thread in reference to the R-Hop mods. I honesty just can't get enough of ideal hopup/range mod talk with different options!
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Old June 4th, 2013, 12:58   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
So you're at 540fps and still able to use a regular length R-hop?
I'm guessing the ER-Hop is exclusively only useful for super heavy BBs then...

False from my experience. I am was running ER hop + EM nub shooting .30g. It takes the right amount of adjustment and filing to get the patch to fit properly and not over lift .30g. It's far easier to just shoot .36g+ with these two mods

with .43g BBs at 1.7 joules 250ft measured shots in controlled conditions are a cake walk. Hardball is uber fun
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Old June 4th, 2013, 13:13   #45
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just to clarify; "super heavy" meaning anything over .36
.36g is what I'd expect people to be using at the average max field limit of 470-500fps
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