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WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

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Old September 8th, 2012, 22:22   #76
drewroud
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
What piston head do you recommend?

I found three different dyna ones, a nine ball, 5ku, and element. Which one is the best?

I put tape on the mag catch, and the slide would not rack at all. I took off one layer of tape on the bbu, and it evened out, so I just took the tape off of the mag catch and put the one layer back on top of the bbu.

Then my bbu started to stick, and the performance droped, so I took out the spring, stretched it a little bit. It works pretty well, but it still sticks when the gas is low.




Next I got around to my hop up again. It does not have any tears what so over. I took it apart a few times and I aligned it perfectly.

The bbs still roll out the barrel occasionally. I dont know why, but it seems to only happen when I tilt the gun downwards and then up. They roll when the gun is up if I I tilted it. I checked to make sure that there was no lube.

I noticed that the arm that presses down on the bucking was tilted up on the right side, so I got my pliers and pressed it down a bit.

It looked normal, and when the hop up was adjusted, it also looked good.


Until I went outside to shoot it.


The hop up did not work at all, whether it was adjusted or not. The performance was the same, the bbs would drop after about 45 ft using .20s

I took apart the gun and this is what I found.



The arm is pressing down on the bucking, but the hop up bucking looks like it is "aroused" and the part that presses down on the bb has instead risen up.

So that is kinda the problem, the nub isnt making contact with the bb.



I am making a simple list of upgrades right now to fix all of my problems and increase my performance.

What do you recommend getting ? suggestions?

~Guarder trigger bar - to fix the slide getting caught
~Guarder mag catch - to fix my mags sitting to low
~Nineball bucking - to fix my hop up issues
~"Dyna" piston head - which one?
~8mm hammer bearing - which one?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 23:56   #77
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Quote:
I found three different dyna ones, a nine ball, 5ku, and element. Which one is the best?
Nineball. I always use it and it never fails me.

Quote:
I put tape on the mag catch, and the slide would not rack at all. I took off one layer of tape on the bbu, and it evened out, so I just took the tape off of the mag catch and put the one layer back on top of the bbu.
Too much tape if your slide can't rack. Try the Coke can one. The aluminum material of the can is much more thinner than duct tape.

Quote:
The arm is pressing down on the bucking, but the hop up bucking looks like it is "aroused" and the part that presses down on the bb has instead risen up
HOLY CRAP!!!
lol.

Yeah that's some protrusion you've got there. That's not suppose to happen. It's probably why your BBs are just rolling out.

The bucking probably didn't stand up against the air and it blew it up resulting in that protrusion.

Get a new bucking.

Quote:
So that is kinda the problem, the nub isnt making contact with the bb
100% right.

Get a new bucking.

Quote:
~"Dyna" piston head - which one?
As I said, the Nineball one is great.

Quote:
8mm hammer bearing - which one?
I usually just buy the ACTION brand one. They are relatively inexpensive (i think $8) and haven't given me any problems yet.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 02:20   #78
h33t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewroud View Post
~Guarder mag catch - to fix my mags sitting to low
I have a similar problem. My WE mag sits alittle low so it feels like it's leaking gas when I fire. Either that or the rubber exhaust lip is too low? So a new mag catch will fix that? I tried pushing the mag up as much as possible, but it's like 1mm difference...

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Old September 10th, 2012, 22:00   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h33t View Post
I have a similar problem. My WE mag sits alittle low so it feels like it's leaking gas when I fire. Either that or the rubber exhaust lip is too low? So a new mag catch will fix that? I tried pushing the mag up as much as possible, but it's like 1mm difference...

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It should fix it. Your magazine rubber shouldn't actually touch the loading muzzle but should be as close as possible. If it does, your loading muzzle will tear the rubber apart or the loading arm will get caught and cause a jam.

If your slide is able to complete a full cycle, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I mean, if your gun is empty and the slide catch engages and the sear locks the hammer when the gun is on full tank with bbs, your ok. Or unless, you chrony it and there is a drastic drop in FPS, then you would worry. But I would start to look elsewhere first, TBH.

The typical signs of the gas loss when nothing is broken is that the piston short strokes and won't the sear won't lock onto the hammer. In the end of the full mag, it will vent the gas because the valve knocker will rest on the magazine valve. It can't reset because the slide can't make it far back enough to lock the hammer into place.

Drew's gun needs some help because his won't cycle properly at all...and since his magazine and his BBU were in good shape, I made the prediction that it was losing air. It's the only place that I haven't "checked" I made a prediction.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 22:08   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewroud View Post
I completely omitted the fact that you have a Guarder Barrel on your gun.

Run on the stock barrel. That Gaurder barrel may be causing friction between the slide and the chamber since the barrel tilts and thereby, causing your gun to expend more gas than it needs to.

Guarder products are finicky when it comes to pistol parts. Again try running it on the stock set up and note the differences in performance for your gun.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 21:51   #81
drewroud
 
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Alight, I shall get the nineball piston head.

Does all of the friction go away with the action 8mm bearing or will it still get stuck.

As of right now, I ghetto rigged my hop up unit, I still have to test it outside later to see if it actually works, but the bbs dont roll out anymore with my "mod".

Another thing is that my WE outer barrel broke, so I got the army outer barrel. The army outer barrel broke, so I got the guarder. These problems happened when I still had the army outer barrel so it isnt due to the guarder in particular.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 00:42   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewroud View Post
Alight, I shall get the nineball piston head.

Does all of the friction go away with the action 8mm bearing or will it still get stuck.

As of right now, I ghetto rigged my hop up unit, I still have to test it outside later to see if it actually works, but the bbs dont roll out anymore with my "mod".

Another thing is that my WE outer barrel broke, so I got the army outer barrel. The army outer barrel broke, so I got the guarder. These problems happened when I still had the army outer barrel so it isnt due to the guarder in particular.
not all the friction but less. you'll still have some but not as bad.
depending in the state of the bbu, it maybe too small and can cause the gun to shoot in full auto.

i am sooo tempted to ask for your gun so i can work on it. mmmmmmmm!
but since i dont know where you live ( in canada or not) i will restarin myself.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 21:34   #83
drewroud
 
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Unfortunately I don't live in Canada.

I just ordered my tier one upgrades including a guarder trigger bar and magazine catch, along with another we magazine, which brings my total to 3 we magazines and 2 army.

First thing I did was take a small silicone stray and cut it so that it fits right under the hop up arm diagonally. The ends are cut so that it just makes the nub press down better and there are no protrusions.



I went outside to shoot it, and it didnt work.

Now, I noticed that when I pressed the slide forward all the way, the hop up worked, and worked really well.

When the gun is racked, and when the gun is shooting, the slide never comes forward all the way. Because of this, the hop up isnt working properly and I dont know why. I think it is the air nozzle, because I tried without the outer barrel on and just the slide and it seems like the friction is coming from the air nozzle entering the hop up bucking. It seems like it is a really tight fit and it has trouble getting into it.





Back and side views when the slide is not all the way forward.






Back and side views when the slide is pushed all the way forward.

Suggestions?
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Old September 16th, 2012, 20:01   #84
e-luder
 
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Usually a strong recoil spring fixes your slide issue.
On your guarder barrel, make sure that it's not in the "pushed down" state when the slide is in battery.

When you push the slide forward, do you hear any clicking sounds?
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Old September 16th, 2012, 20:41   #85
drewroud
 
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So I started to Troubleshoot by loosening the screws of the hop up unit. With ought the outer barrel and just sliding the unit onto the nozzle, it seemed a whole lot better. Because the sides of the guarder outer barrel are pretty narrow, when the screws of the hop up unit were loosened, the hop upunit could not move at all in the outer barrel, so that was a dead end.

Next thing I did was installed the unit with just the inner barrel, no bucking. Immediately almost all friction was eliminated, the slide moved so much smoother and dint get stuck.

The last thing I did was put silicone on the nozzle and on the rim of the bucking. It fixed the problem, the slide did not get stuck and the bbs had spin on them and they flew far.

When I put in the second magazine, it went back to normal again and started sticking.

SO the problem is from the bucking / nozzle.

I will try putting more o rings on the recoil spring to make it stronger - I already have too on it.

As for clicking, I dont really hear anything other than the bbu hitting the bearing.

What do you mean: On your guarder barrel, make sure that it's not in the "pushed down" state when the slide is in battery. ?
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Old September 18th, 2012, 02:02   #86
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Here...
Check if there is some sort of protrusion around this area on your Glock and file it away. It's located on the left rail of the slide. If there is, file it away. My slide had this and it was the source of all my problems.

photo copy.JPGphoto.JPG

Are you sure you seated the packing right? It should be neatly tucked away into the hop up casing.

The reason I say to make sure that the barrel is not tilting when the slide is in battery is because when the barrel tilts, it slightly pushes the hop up down. There is very little room of play even though the hop up unit is stationary but it can still move around.

If the outer barrel tilts up, it can take the inner barrel along with it and can cause the misalignment between the bucking and nozzle. It's like a seesaw-ing effect.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 18:39   #87
drewroud
 
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I finally got my guarder parts in the mail!

First off, I tested my new we magazine. I noticed at the top of the magazine, the rubbery part is completely flat, unlike my mags that have the top rounded. I expect this is wear from the nozzle.

My can of propane is running out, but on one of my old mags, I could get 4 shots with the first locking back and 4 with the new mag but the first two lock back.

Next I got to installing the new mag catch. It was really hard because of the mag spring, but I got it installed and I took off the tape off the top of the bbu. Immediately I got 7 rounds per mag with MUCH more kick. SO that solved my problem, you are a genius (or have a super amount of experience lol).

I also have 4 o rings on my recoil spring that are like shims for the spring. Does this increase the power of the spring or just make it compressed a little earlier? In theory, If the spring gets 100% compressed with a slide cycle, the power of the spring should not increase because the o rings have just shifted its placement.

Anyways, with all of this, the slide does not really stick anymore. The slide pretty much makes a complete return to rest position, maybe about 1 -2 mm back.

Next I plan on disassembling my lower receiver to install the trigger bar. Is there a step by step instruction guide anywhere online? Are there any pieces that are very troublesome to look out for?

I want to replace the sights on my glock with nights sights, have you tried the big dragon?
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Old September 29th, 2012, 04:47   #88
e-luder
 
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I take no credit at all. You did the work and you fixed your gun. Not me.
Pat on the back sir. Pat on the back.


Quote:
noticed at the top of the magazine, the rubbery part is completely flat, unlike my mags that have the top rounded. I expect this is wear from the nozzle.
I don't think that's the case here. That magazine is brand new and should not have worn off that much that quickly. Plus, if what you're suspecting holds true, then that new magazine should've caused a jam with the loading arm on your loading nozzle. There would have been too much of the "rubbery part" wear off initially thus would have over-protruded causing a jam.

I suspect that the flat "rubbery part" is how WE has manufactured these replacement magazines. Though I see no visible advantage nor reason as to why they would have two designs for the same magazine.

here's how AG pictured it:



that looks like a flat gas route packing to me.

Quote:
In theory, If the spring gets 100% compressed with a slide cycle, the power of the spring should not increase because the o rings have just shifted its placement
Correct. If you want a better, crispier slide cycle get a stiffer spring. The Shooter's Design recoil spring is pretty strong. It's 150% in strenght but is much stiffer than the guarder ones because it has less coils. Most of guns have this spring installed and most of them are shortstroked because the power of the spring is too much.

Short stroking the gun will give you a better gas consumption though. heh. so all is not lost.

Quote:
Next I plan on disassembling my lower receiver to install the trigger bar. Is there a step by step instruction guide anywhere online? Are there any pieces that are very troublesome to look out for?
there are many youtbe videos on these. just simply look one up that caters to your preference.

Here's one:
Tokyo Marui Glock 17 Full Take Down/Disassemble (HD QUALITY) - YouTube

Quote:
I want to replace the sights on my glock with nights sights, have you tried the big dragon?
I wasn't aware that Big Dragon made sights for TM Glocks so no i haven't used one.

But I have used the Big Dragon fiber optic sight system for my KSC G18c before. From my experience, you can probably get a better version. These sights are for the budget minded airsofters.

The fiber rods are poor on the KSC sights. hardly any good use out of them before they just decided to fall off of the sight.

But keep in mind, this was a KSC version sights I owned.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 20:02   #89
drewroud
 
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I just took my gun apart and put it back together just to see if I could do it. I almost lost the spring outside of the hammer assembly, but I found it.

Do you have a thread with all of your glocks / other pistols? I really would like to see all of them.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 16:46   #90
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Here's a few of my builds...




...one too many...
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Last edited by e-luder; September 30th, 2012 at 18:42..
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