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WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

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Old August 14th, 2012, 10:01   #61
Mobot
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Its come to my knowledge that the KJW Glock 23 is compatible with the TM Glock parts. KJW are very very good when it comes to spare parts. I just ordered myself a mag catch spring direct from them for the princely sum of $3.20 including shipping.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 12:43   #62
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does the slide make contact with the lower frame? Looks like it in the first picture.

If you can't slide a piece of paper through there freely, I'd start sanding the bottom of the slide. Just take a block of wood and some fine grit sandpaper and place the slide on top and sand it down until there's enough clearance.

I had to do that for my shooter's design slide on my G17.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 00:18   #63
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I have a TM 18C. Long story short the spring for the fire selector is now lost to the training area of CFB Petawawa. Part# 18C-19. Can anyone point me in the right direction for getting this rather obscure part?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 20:13   #64
e-luder
 
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Update:

Just tested the slide internals of WE and HK Glocks on a TM stock, Guarder, and Shooter's Design Slide.

This won't be a surprise to you guys but the the internals all work on the different slide combinations. But as expected, the Guarder slide fought the BBU a bit on the G18c. Specifically, the selector doesn't move fluently. In fact, it needed a bit of force to move from full auto to semi.

On the G17, the sights were a bit finicky as the WE sights used a bigger screw and thus didn't fit the stock sight properly. At least in my case.

The Hop up unit on the WE internals comes pre-kitted with an 03 tightbore. Nice little feature. The inner barrel wasn't creating any wobble inside the outer barrel on the metal ones but the stock outerbarrel had a bit of wobble. You'l need some sort of O-ring to hold the inner in place. This is on both guns.

The WE stock slide assembly also yields a bit more power than a stock TM assembly. It doesn't have the best bucking or piston head but the floating valve is stronger than most of the aftermarket plastic valves on the market. WHich is a good thing...

Mating the Lower assembly to the WE upper is quite superb. I was worried that the Stock G17's hammer bearing would create problems with the WE BBU but I found that they melded well.

I have yet to test out WE Lower assembly with TM Stock parts. I will update soon!!!
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Old August 25th, 2012, 01:47   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-luder View Post
Update:

Just tested the slide internals of WE and HK Glocks on a TM stock, Guarder, and Shooter's Design Slide.

This won't be a surprise to you guys but the the internals all work on the different slide combinations. But as expected, the Guarder slide fought the BBU a bit on the G18c. Specifically, the selector doesn't move fluently. In fact, it needed a bit of force to move from full auto to semi.

On the G17, the sights were a bit finicky as the WE sights used a bigger screw and thus didn't fit the stock sight properly. At least in my case.

The Hop up unit on the WE internals comes pre-kitted with an 03 tightbore. Nice little feature. The inner barrel wasn't creating any wobble inside the outer barrel on the metal ones but the stock outerbarrel had a bit of wobble. You'l need some sort of O-ring to hold the inner in place. This is on both guns.

The WE stock slide assembly also yields a bit more power than a stock TM assembly. It doesn't have the best bucking or piston head but the floating valve is stronger than most of the aftermarket plastic valves on the market. WHich is a good thing...

Mating the Lower assembly to the WE upper is quite superb. I was worried that the Stock G17's hammer bearing would create problems with the WE BBU but I found that they melded well.

I have yet to test out WE Lower assembly with TM Stock parts. I will update soon!!!
Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to your next update
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 19:14   #66
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Hi guys, I have lurked the first page for a while, and I have come to notice that you know a lot about the mechanisms and can help me out with a problem.

Long story short: My we glock 17 worked and now it not working properly.


Basically my gas efficiency has decreased drastically, and the BBU mound gets stuck on the hammer bearing. My glock was fully functioning before and working fine before this started happening.

Here is a quote from a message that I sent another user:


I have searched hours online for a detailed mechanism guide / videos for the glocks, and I have not found anything yet! Where did you learn your stuff?

Anyways I started thinking about it more and I ruled some things out.

~The same amount of gas is being out in the mags so the magazines can be ruled out. (I just bought a brand new army magazine and the same problems happen with it.

SO this means that the problem has to lie within the hammer assembly or the upper bbu.

Another problem is I dont understand how the bbu works and all of the springs/ valvues up top work. Can you explain to me what each peice in the bbu does?

Also, can you explain what the hell does the hammer bearing does and why does it have to be rotated?

I thought about it and I forget that when the gun is fired, the bbu pushes back on the hammer and bearing, so even if it is sticking up higher, the slide isnt affected until the slide is sent back, and the mound gets stuck on the bearing.

That seems like a lot, so I will simplify my request down.

1. Explanation of the bbu / upper assembly gas parts.
2. Explanation of the hammer bearing.
3. The only purpose of the sear is to lock down the hammer and allow the trigger bar to engage it right?
4. Explanation of an enhanced hammer spring? Does it hit the valvue harder?


Thanks for your time/ advice, and hopefully I can get my gun up and running again!


PS: It is not a grease or lube problem, I just redid the whole thing yesterday, same issue!

Last edited by drewroud; January 13th, 2013 at 01:02..
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Old September 4th, 2012, 04:25   #67
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IT sounds like you've jusy blown your piston head or you've cracked or broken something inside your BBU. Take it apart and inspect every part carefully. Cracks are easy to miss in poor lighting.

But to be honest, I'm not surprised that this came up. My two WE Glocks have the same problem. Both a G17 and a G19.

The problem you are experiencing is that there is too much wasted gas. There no real "blowback" to the gun because simply put, gas can't even make it into the upper assembly.. or at least not enough of it. This is by by WE's design of the slide itself. The BBU is too embedded within the slide that there is a lot of room between the magazine and the loading muzzle, thereby giving the gas expelled from the magazine more room to disperse while it is on its way to the loading muzzle.

The second problem I've noticed is that the loading muzzle itself doesn't fully return to it's resting position and thereby misaligning the whole in which gas enters the BBU on the loading muzzle.

Gas efficiency sucks on these things because whatever pot metal mixture WE used for the slide is too heavy. Thus more gas is needed to move it and complete a full cycle.

These are both issues found in both my WE Glocks. Am starting to think that this may be the case with their whole Glock line in general. But I could just have gotten the bad ones out of the whole production line. Who knows. These are hard problems to fix because they require a lot of playing around with the internals.

but I'll try to give you a few POSSIBLE solutions and what I did to get them working properly on MY gun.
This is going to get confusing so bare with me while reading.



The BBU and it's internals explained:

The whole blowback assembly's function is two folds: 1). To provide the bb with adequate propulsion and 2). To reset the valve knocker while simultaneously chambering the next round. so here is each part and what they do:

The Loading muzzle (part g26-6):

The loading muzzle's function is two folds: 1) to push the bb out of the barrel and chamber the next round and 2) to create blowback so that the slide can reset the hammer to the ready fire position.

The arm on the loading muzzle chambers the next round by pushing the next BB out of the feedlips (part g26-62) on the magazine. The whole in the front directs air that pushes the bb. the bottom whole is where air passes through from the magazine.

When the gun is fired, the loading muzzle tends to stick to the hop up chamber until the whole slide pulls it away. There is a spring located atop the loading muzzle that returns it to it's resting position when the "blowback" occurs. This is a very important part as it may contribute to the problem at hand by not fully returning the muzzle and causing the misalignment mentioned above.

The Floating valve and plunger spring (Part G26-8 and Part G26-7):

This is located inside the loading muzzle and is the heart of the BBU. The function of the floating valve is to distribute the air from the magazine to push the bb out and to create blowback.

You'll notice that the floating valve has several holes cut into it and down the middle. This is to direct air towards the BB.
Understand that much more force is needed to move a metal assembly and all its internal parts (the slide) than a 0.20 gram piece of spherical plastic.

At some point during the cycle, the floating valve will completely close off the front part of the loading muzzle by the negative pressures in created when the BB travels and exits the inner barrel, cutting off airflow to that section and redirecting the remaining air to the rear of the BBU.

The plunger spring returns the floating valve to it's original position, ready for the next trigger pull.

The Piston Head (part G17-4 and Part g175):

The piston head prevents or minimizes the amount of air that escapes the loading muzzle on the rear side of the BBU. Essentially, without the piston head, you can't achieve "gas compression" since all the air escapes. Know that air will tend to escape which ever way it can.

The hop Up bucking (Parts: G26-24):

This acts exactly like a piston head except it's found on the front of the upper assembly. It also adjusts the "hop" on the BB by making the BB spin making it easier for it to splice through the air.

That's all that really matters for your question.

The hammer bearing's function, again, is two folds: 1) to lock the hammer to the sear and 2), provide a "cushion" to the BBU when the hammer is released.

Understand, that your hammer doesn't actually hit the BBU as hard. That's why, when compared to the latter KSC models that DO hit the BBU, the Marui's hammer doesn't have much wear. This is all possible because of that hammer bearing.

The BBU is also not the main culprit when the hammer is reset. The Hammer bearing is. Here's a cool experiment: try firing the gun without the hammer bearing and see if it does reset and lock the hammer to sear.

The sear is the main contact point between the front of the gun to rear. Without it you can't fire the gun. And yes the sear does lock to the hammer. The purpose of this is stop the valve knocker from hitting the blowoff valve on the magazine over and over again whether you want it to or not.

An enhanced hammer spring creates a higher velocity of the hammer when the sear releases it. This in turn creates a much more powerful strike from the valve knocker to the blowoff valve on the magazine. This opens the blowoff valve much more and allows more air to escape from the magazine.

The enahnced hammer spring also a tendency to create more resistance to the slide when it is cycling. This is because the enhanced hammer spring has a higher tension.

So how does this all come together to create "a full cycle"?

This happens in less than a second or two so the details may be a bit shotty at best. But in general, this is what happens:

1). First, the gun is racked and the hammer is in a ready fire state. The valve knocker is ready to hit the valve on the magazine.

2). The trigger is pulled and the trigger transfer bar pushes the sear back and releases the hammer.

3). the Hammer, along with the valve knocker, dart forward and hits the valve on the magazine, releasing gas.

4). Gas is expelled from the magazine and enters the BBU via the bottom hole of the loading muzzle.

5A). The BB begins its travel down the inner barrel.

5B). The BB exits the barrel. The floating valve is closed due to negative pressure, The piston head and the head of the floating valve create the necessary gas compression long enough to "blow" the whole slide assembly backwards. The slide begins it's travel backwards. (Some may disagree with 6A and 6b occuring in different times. But in general, it's what happens)

6). The slide continues its travel backwards.

7). As the slide is on its path, it trips the disconnector and the trigger transfer bar but doesn't reset the valve knocker nor the hammer to a ready fire position.

8). The hammer bearing and the hammer are pushed backed.

9). Just before the slide comes to a stop, the hammer is push down completely and the sear latches and locks it into a ready fire state through the hammer bearing. The valve knocker is reset.

10). The recoil spring pulls the whole slide assembley forward.

11). As the slides travels forward, the arm on the loading muzzle pushes the next bb into the hop up unit, chambering the next round.

12). The slide returns to full battery and the gun is ready for the next trigger pull.

Possible solutions for your problem:
As far as my tests go, I can only surmise the problem occurs somewhere between steps 4 to 6B. SO here are a few suggestions to consider:

Option 1:

While it may be true that the problem is not with the magazine. Do not be so quick to rule it out.

Even though gas is released consistently from whatever magazine you put in there, you have to wonder where the hell all that gas goes.

Alot of the times, a gun loses air compression solely for the fact that the magazine is not sitting correctly inside the magazine chamber. This causes a misalignment with the bottom whole of the loading muzzle.

Don't you wonder why the gun doesn't even move a single centimeter when the gun vents out all the gas with one trigger pull? In theory it should, right?That's because the gas is not directed into the loading muzzle at all.

There is either too much space between the magazine and the loading muzzle thus gas escapes everywhere before it reaches the loading muzzle or the loading muzzle itselft is not fully returning to where it should be (remember the spring I mentioned? yeah that guy...). This is all happening in step 4 above.

the fix is to get a new magazine catch to sit the magazine properly.

or you can do this:

You can bring your BBU closer to the magazine rubber whole thingy (the rectangular whole atop the mag) by putting a small amount of duct tape inside your slide, right above where the top of BBU will sit. You bring the bbu closer to the magazing rubber gas route thereby eliminating the uneccessary gas discharge and directing the gas directly into the Nozzle. dont put too much tape though. if you do, you cause the bbbu to be too close to the magazine rubber and wear it down even further. And also, the guide rails' path will be blocked by the bbu and the slide wont cycle at all. also the loading arm on the nozzle will jam the gun if there is too much tape.

You also don't want to put too much because duct tape is very malleable. When you tighten the rear screw to bolt the BBU to the slide, the pressure it creates is exacted upon the rest of the BBU and therefore cause too much friction on the loading muzzle. The BBU housing is not a closed off area like the KSC Glock BBU where this method wont affect the loading muzzle as much. In fact, if you put too much, the duct tape will actually take the shape of the grooves on the BBU housing and the loading muzzle won't move at all...I hope you know what I mean. The harder way is to put the duct tape where the rear screw is so you ont have to worry about the muzzle as much.

Essentially, if you are familliar with the shimming process of an AEG Gearbox, it's almost the same effect and process.

Or you can take apart your magazines and bring the air nozzle closer to the BBU. Same effect. Just a different part of the gun.

Option 2:

Is to check everything inside your BBU. Make sure nothing is cracked and nothing is broken.

My suggestion is to get a good piston head to get a better airseal inside your BBU. This will help conserve however much gas is in the BBU and effectively creating a good, crisp cycle.

Option 3:

Sand or file down the interaction point of the hammer bearing on the BBU (where the hammer bearing appears to be catching) and smoothen it out with polish or something.

Dn't go too far though. If you take too much off, the hammer bearing will become useless.

Option 4:

Buy a smaller hammer bearing. I have a 8mm bearing installed on mine and I've never had any iissues at all.

You gun jammed at the end because there wasn't enough blowback to pull the loading muzzle apart from the hop up unit. Once you create more gas flow, it will seldom happen.

Also, the gun vents all the gas because the slide doesn't travel back enough to reset the hammer and valve knocker. It's kind of an oxymoron or a paradox. This means that valve knocker will stay pushing unto the blowoff valve until either the mag runs out or you manually cocked the gun.

I can also be that your magazine is just cold....

I apologize if I can't help you further. It's really hard to diagnose without the gun in front of me.

Anyways, hope it somewhat helps.
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Last edited by e-luder; December 5th, 2012 at 01:38..
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Old September 4th, 2012, 12:53   #68
drewroud
 
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WOW, I did not expect such a detailed response in short notice, thanks!

There are a few things I still don't understand.

Can you explain a little more on how the hammer bearing is used to lock down the sear? I have not taken apart my hammer assembly yet so I have not seen the full sear / mechanism but I dont understand how it could help with locking down the hammer. From my perspective, all I see is the little notch in the hammer getting stuck on the sear. How does the little bearing on the opposite side help lock it down?

When you say that the hammer bearing provides a cushion to the hammer, do you mean when the trigger is pulled and the hammer is released and strikes the back of the bbu?

Is the small piece of plastic that screws into the nozzle just there to make sure that the floating valve does not go back to far and to direct air flow to the back?

I noticed that on the piston in the bbu, there is a small piece of rubber attached to the bottom. What function does this piece serve?

One more thing, I dont really understand how the blowback works. Does the gas that is propelled towards the back of the bbu stay in the air nozzle, and how does it propel the slide back?

My gun worked fine before, even in the winter, so it has to be something.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that my mags are warm to start out with, but after shooting them, they feel FREEZING, super cold, complete difference.

Also yesterday when I was tinkering with the bbu, I noticed that even with the screw fully tightened for the piston head, it still wobbled a bit. I put a tiny o ring under the piston head, but the problem was still happening.

Thanks for all of the help.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 01:54   #69
e-luder
 
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Again this will get confusing so I will try to be as clear and concise as I can be.

"Blowback" explained.

Let's step back from airsoft for a moment.

Picture a sailboat in the middle of the ocean fighting against a strong current. The boat wants to move backwards but the current is moving it forwards. That sailboat will move where the current is directing it, correct?

Now let's add the element of wind going in the opposite direction of the current. Let's also say that the boat has its sails up to catch the wind and propel it backwards, where it wants to go.

If the wind is strong enough to combat the current, the boat will overpower the current and thus will move backward, where it wants to go. Now let's say that the wind has died down. Well, the current then takes the boat over again, right? So therefore the boat will "return" to same direction as the current.

This is the same science that happens inside the BBU and how it creates "blowback" or how the gun "blows" the slide backwards.

So let's replace everything in this analogy with the parts of an airsoft pistol. This equation then becomes like this:

The boat is your BBH (part g17-8) (not to be confused with "BBU", BBH is the metal casing everything is contained in)
The sail is your piston head (part g17-4 and g17-5)
The current is your recoil spring (part: g17-16)
The ocean is your WHOLE gun
The wind is the gas expelled from the magazine

So let's your in step 5B in the slide cycle (see previous post for reference) and the floating valve has closed off the airway to the BB. That part is done.

If we change the words around in my analogy, It will read something like this:

"Picture a slide/BBH in the middle of the gun fighting against a strong recoil spring. The slide/BBH wants to move backwards but the recoil spring is moving it forwards. That slide/BBH will move where the recoil spring pulls it, correct?

Now let's add the element of gas going in the opposite direction of the recoil spring. Let's also say that the BBH has its piston head up to catch the gas and propel it backwards, where it wants to go.

If the gas is strong enough to combat the recoil spring, the BBH/slide will overpower the recoil spring and thus will move backwards (or in the opposite direction of the recoil spring). Now let's say that the gas has died down. Well, the recoil spring then re-takes the BBH/Slide over again, right? and therefore slide will "return" to same direction as the recoil spring."


You can tweak the story a bit more to make it more coherent but that's the best I can do in terms of story telling. lol.

Anyways, when the floating valve closes the airway to the BB, all of the remaining gas from the magazine that didn't make it through to the BB gets channelled towards the piston head. As more gas is expelled in that direction, and provided the piston head is not busted, there is enough force is created by the current of the gas to overpower the recoil spring and physically "blow" the whole slide assembly backwards. The gas the doesn't stay in the loading muzzle strictly speaking but slowly "leaks" around the piston head or back out of the loading muzzle hole where it came from. If the gas did stay in there, the piston head and the loading muzzle will explode because of the pressure.

That is essentially what is happening inside the loading muzzle. Think of the boat!!!!!!!

The Hammer Bearing explained:

Again, I re-iterate that the function of the hammer bearing is two folds: 1). To push the hammer down so the sear can lock it 2). To cushion the hammer strike on the BBH

1) To push the hammer down so the sear can lock it

Your WE Glock is, in essence, is a Tokyo Marui design. Thus, the BBH is the same.

The design choice by Marui to incorporate a hammer bearing is quite ingenius.

Understand that the BBH, itself, can't push the hammer far enough for the sear to lock it back. Therefore, Marui incorporated the hammer bearing to perform this task. Remember the experiment I told you about? the one where you fire the gun without the bearing? try it and see what happens. You'll understand better.

How it happens is this:

There is a nub on the left side of the side of the BBH. This nub is what interacts with the hammer bearing. The nub protrudes enough so that when the hammer is down, the hammer bearing can add enough force and push the hammer further down where the sear can lock it into place.

You need the hammer bearing. If you don't want it catching to the nub, just buy s a smaller hammer bearing or round off the corner of the nub a tiny bit by filing it so that it's easier for the hammer bearing to hump over (sorta like a speed bump). After all, it's easier to get over a rounded corner than a sharp one right?

That's pretty much it. It's hard to explain without pictures so I will try for another analogy.

Suppose you are trying to hang from some monkey bars but you are too short and can't reach them. Then a magical chair appears before you. You take the chair and place beneath the monkey bars. You climb on it and boom. You're hanging off the monkey bars like the little kid you are.

The hammer bearing is the magic chair. you are the hammer and the monkey bars are the sear. Without the chair, you weren't able to reach or "lock" onto the monkey bars. Get it? heh.

Quote:
When you say that the hammer bearing provides a cushion to the hammer, do you mean when the trigger is pulled and the hammer is released and strikes the back of the bbu?
Yes.

Quote:
Is the small piece of plastic that screws into the nozzle just there to make sure that the floating valve does not go back to far and to direct air flow to the back?
This is your valve blocker. It's function is to basically make sure that the floating valve and it's holes are aligned with the hole on the loading muzzle. And like you said, it prevents the floating valve from going too far back.

Quote:
I noticed that on the piston in the bbu, there is a small piece of rubber attached to the bottom. What function does this piece serve?
If you mean the piston head, then it's function is to act as the "sail" of the slide and stops the gas from expelling backaswards.

In the stock form, the piston head has two parts: the first is the actual "sail" that traps the air inside; the second is the supporting o-ring that helps prevent damage to the sail by equalizing the strength of the surface area of the sail which the gas hits.

Quote:
Also yesterday when I was tinkering with the bbu, I noticed that even with the screw fully tightened for the piston head, it still wobbled a bit. I put a tiny o ring under the piston head, but the problem was still happening.
That's typical of any GBB, particularly WE's Hi-capa GBB pistols. Nothing much you can do unless you buy a new piston head.

Quote:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that my mags are warm to start out with, but after shooting them, they feel FREEZING, super cold, complete difference.
Again, there's not much you can do with that.
But I can only surmise that one of the causes is the expanding gasses flowing around your magazine when the BBU doesn't align with the air nozzle on your magazine.

In your video, you asked why the trigger bar needs a nub. The nub is needed to push the trigger bar down when the slide is cycling. If the trigger bar isn't pushed down, the sear won't lock to hammer. There is another nub beneath the nub you see facing the sear. That nub is responsible for spacing the sear apart from the hammer. Essentially, the trigger bar jams the sear so that there is no friction between the hammer and sear when the slide is is pushing the hammer down. the top nub clears the jam and the sear snaps to the hammer.




This is when the trigger bar is "up" or the nub is "up". Notice how far the sear is and notice the little rectangular tab and how it is on a slight angle. At this point, the sear can't lock onto the hammer because it can't reach it.


This is when the nub is "down". Notice the position of sear (the silver thing) and notice that the silver tab is now parallel to the trigger bar. This is when the sear is locked unto the hammer

You need the top nub (the one that interacts with the slide) because in all retrospect, there is no other way to trip the trigger bar. Or there is no other place to put it where something will push it down while it simultaneously interacts with the sear.

If the trigger bar doesn't get pushed down, there will be too much space between the sear and hammer therefore the sear won't reach the hammer to lock it and thus the hammer will always stay uncocked.

If that nub is getting caught on the BBH, you can file the corner of the part of the BBH where the nub hits. Same process like you did with the hammer bearing.

If the you want to bend the trigger bar, bend the part beside the magazine chamber (the long part where nothing happens) towards the frame. DO IT VERY GENTLY AND EVeR SO VERY LIGHTLY. the trigger bar is very frail and will break in half if you bend too much too fast.

My suggestion is to come heavy with pictures of every single ppart so I can see what your set up looks like.

Did you check every single piece of your BBU for damages?
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Last edited by e-luder; December 5th, 2012 at 01:40..
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Old September 6th, 2012, 22:40   #70
drewroud
 
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Once again, thanks for the super response.

I am super busy this week, so I will have to give a more detailed response tomorrow or Saturday, and I will have to reread yours.

I understand the purpose of the hammer bearing now. All it does is give the extra "oomph" so that the hammer can lock down. So essentially it does not have to be a bearing, like the guns zero hammer.

I put two pieces of duct tape on the top of the bbu, three was to many because the gun wouldn't rack smoothly. With two there is just enough clearance.

And what do you know, performance immediately increased.

Compared to the stock performance and efficiency, its at about 3/4 while before it was at about 1/4.

I am assuming this means my mags are sitting to low?

Pictures to come...
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Old September 7th, 2012, 00:34   #71
e-luder
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewroud View Post
So essentially it does not have to be a bearing, like the guns zero hammer.
I actually don't recommend you buying the GunsModify Zero Hammer. It takes a lot of breaking in and minor modifications to function properly. It needs to be worked in extensively.

The reason why Tokyo Marui uses bearings is because it is much easier and more fluent than the zero hammer. The Zero Hammer tends to create more friction on the BBH because it has to GLIDE along the surface rather than SPIN along. Think of a tire versus a sled. Would you rather sled down a paved road or roll in your car or bike? Which would be more effective and which would have greater mileage before breaking?

The Marui Glock 18c has a similar technology to the Zero Hammer and it is not as effective as the hammer bearing on the G17. I've broken that piece many times on my G18c and are super hard to acquire.

Again, if you are worried about the hammer bearing sticking, buy a smaller one. An 8mm size should do the trick.

Or

You can mod your BBH a little to make sure that the bearing doesn't get caught. Really, all you need to worry about is to make it easier for the hammer bearing to hump over the nub on the BBH, which is where all the friction occurs. After it gets over it, then the slide is free to move more fluently.

Quote:
I am assuming this means my mags are sitting to low?
That would be the right assumption and I would think the same thing.
To check, insert your magazine and allow the magazine catch to lock it into place. THen push the mag even further. If the magazine can be pushed further or if there is still room to give, then yes, the magazine will be sitting too low and is causing the loss of air pressure in the BBU.

You can fix this by buying a new magazine catch or adding some duct tape on the notch where the magazine catch locks the mag. It's on the side of the magazine. It'll need some trying and fitting like you did with the BBU.

If you can't already tell, I am a proponent for the use of duct tape to fix every single damn thing in the universe. Yeahhh....

IF the magazine is as tight as it can be AND you have the duct tape installed on the BBU AND the gun is still behaving poorly (provided nothing in the BBU is broken), then you must change the gas route packing (the rectangular hole where the gas escapes on top of the magazine) because it is now worn and can not deliver gas to the loading muzzle properly.

See how the hole is raised a bit and curved? If the curvy part looks like it is too wide, that means the loading muzzle has effectively chewed the crap out of it and therefore requires changing.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 23:30   #72
drewroud
 
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Lol I like your analogies, especially the magical chair.

I pretty much understand the blowback now, but does the floating valve "push" the gas into the chamber? From what I understand, gas won't go in a direction unless you propel / force it.

Also, how does the piston head catch the gas? And how does the o ring function?

Up next are some pictures I took.


You can see the warn down part







Magazine in on rest position, not pressed up.



Huge difference - mag is pressed up. Now when the slide is on, the magazine wont go up at all.



My setup - I forgot to mention my guarder outer barrel.





Does this look normal?







What does that piece sticking out on the piston do?



Piston head, it looks like there is a crack but I think it is just the seam, it is on top and bottom and it doesn't go in the middle.







Bottom of the head



With o ring

So with the magazine issue is it supposed to be with the slide on?

What brand of magazines are there and what do you recommend?

I have we and army, army has better effeciency but leak after extended usage.

Also, I went to shoot the gun outside and the bbs dropped after about 10 - 20 feet, so I turned on the hop up to the max. The bbs went further, but went way to the right.

I took apart my hop up unit, the bucking is fine but seems to get really compressed and mushed when the screws of the unit are tightened. When you look at the bucking on full hop from the barrel, it is kinda lopsided. Is it supposed to look like a flat type bucking, or a u shaped like a concave?

Also, the bbs are misfeeding. When I rack the slide when the hop up is turned off, the bbs just roll out. When you rack the slide hard when the hop up is turned up, they roll out.

Does this mean I need a new bucking?

Have you checked what diameter the barrel is? I am just wondering...
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Old September 8th, 2012, 08:52   #73
e-luder
 
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Location: Centre Mass
Quote:
I pretty much understand the blowback now, but does the floating valve "push" the gas into the chamber? From what I understand, gas won't go in a direction unless you propel / force it.
It doesn't "push" it per se but mainly direct it to where it needs to go. The push comes from the blowoff valve on the magazine. Essentially, your magazine is like a can of air freshener. You press a button and the fresh scent of wildflower or whatever escapes from the can. The same principle applies to the magazine.

Quote:
Also, how does the piston head catch the gas? And how does the o ring function?
As I stated above, the piston head is essentially a sail. When the floating valve closes, the piston head is there to prevent gas from instantly escaping the loading muzzle assembly. [HINT: Look up the physics involved as to how a sail moves a sailboat and you'll understand better.]

Here's an analogy:

Hang a towel in front of a fan and see how the towel behaves. Do you feel air coming through? Obviously not. The piston head acts the same way. The piston head is the towel. So suppose we took the towel off the fan. Now would you feel air? yes? Good. So suppose we remove the piston head from the BBU. Do you think that we will get the same "blowback" as we would if the piston is installed? Do you think we would get ANY "blowback" at all? Probably not.

How it catches air? It just sits there. Waiting. Watching. Like Sauron. lol.
There's nothing special about HOW it catches it. The piston head just gives the channelled air a surface area to blow on.

Quote:
And how does the o ring function?
NOTE: This is only applicable on the STOCK piston heads. On the aftermarket ones, it has a different function.

So let's go back to fan analogy. Remember how the towel behaves while it's hanging??? It will be blown away right and flap around, right? Suppose we put the something hard in front of the towel, like the back of a chair of something. Does the towel still flap around or does it stabilize itself by using the chair for support?

It stabilizes. That's what the O-ring does on the piston head. Gives the sail more stability and stregth. The O-ring is the chair, BTW.


Quote:
So with the magazine issue is it supposed to be with the slide on?
Yes.

Quote:
What brand of magazines are there and what do you recommend?
Tokyo Marui

Quote:
I took apart my hop up unit, the bucking is fine but seems to get really compressed and mushed when the screws of the unit are tightened. When you look at the bucking on full hop from the barrel, it is kinda lopsided. Is it supposed to look like a flat type bucking, or a u shaped like a concave?
I assume it will be lop sided in the stock bucking. Both of my WE Glocks show the same thing. This is how the bucking imparts the spin the bb needs.

But there should be equal force between the two nubs on the hop up clamp. I tweaked mine to have this. I found that for WE bucking to achieve a perfect seal, your bucking should curve around the BB.

And how tight you put the clamp on will impact how much spin you have on the BB.

Quote:
Does this mean I need a new bucking?
Check to see if you didn't tear the bucking when you put it back together first.

...and make sure you put everything back properly.

One thing you can do is to tighten the the hop up even more. THere is a clamp on top of the hop up unit that applies pressure to the bucking. Try bending it downwards towards the bucking while the hop-up is off. But not too much because if you do, you will overtighten the grip the bucking has on the BB. You want it to be just right. Then crank the hop up to eleven and see if it made a difference.

The reason your bbs are rolling out is because three reasons:

1). your bucking is torn
2). Your hop up is not tight enough and thus loses a tight airseal.
3). you lubed the bucking accidentally and the bbs are "slipping" through.

Check everything there first before buying a new bucking.

Quote:
Have you checked what diameter the barrel is?
All of my stock WE inner barrels are measured to 6.03 Tighbores (at least the ones that come from Evike).
I can only surmise that it may have been the standard for their Glock line. But seeing your inner barrel, it could be different. Mine had a blue coating on the exterior but yours is brass colored thus yours may be different.

They usually mark it on the side of the inner barrel anyways. If not, go buy a ruler and measure for yourself.

Everything in your pictures look like they are still good shape. But to be honest, they are in poor lighting condition so I may be wrong.
Just buy a new piston head if you are worried it's cracked. Buy a metal DYNA one. Works great.

You can fix your magazine catch problem by doing this:

Get a Coke a can. Cut a piece of the side off. Now cut the piece to match the shape of the groove on the magazine catch. Then superglue that badboy in place. Make sure it is as flat as possible.

Do a trial run by stacking as many pieces you need before you glue them altogether. That should create the packing you need to raise your magazine up higher.

The best part is... it only cost you a can of Coke.
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Last edited by e-luder; December 5th, 2012 at 01:42..
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Old September 8th, 2012, 15:24   #74
p.phresh
 
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
If you haven't already checked your loading nozzle/muzzle i'd check that over really well. My G17 had the same problem as yours, venting gas and not blowing back far enough.

Turned out the loading nozzle had a crack in it. It was replaced and everything worked perfectly.

You can also test the space between your mag and loading nozzle by just pressing up on the mag and shooting the gun, see if there's much difference.

Kudos to E for the detailed write ups.... I liked reading your analogies... lol
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Old September 8th, 2012, 15:27   #75
p.phresh
 
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
There's a description and some images of how the blowback works on airsoft pistols here:
http://playfast-gallery.blogspot.ca/...blow-back.html

includes some photos to help you understand it all.
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