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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:15   #116
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Originally Posted by jixton View Post
Ok well, the way i see it, nobody know what is a real milsim compare to a skirmish with objectives. This is why it's so hard to organise an event that everyone will enjoy, cause airsoft player don't know what they really want in a game. The key in a game is comunication regardless of any objective. If you have every squad in complete communication you will have the lead.

Until somebody explain what a real milsim is all about those who set up game(and they are just few) will continue to make what you call big skirmish with objective.
Okay, I'll propose to you that you don't know what you're talking about.

Many people know exactly what a MILSIM operation is. We also know what a SKIRMISH is. The problem is people who market games as MILSIM when it's not.

I don't need complex objectives. I don't need complex medic rules. Simply put, milsim is MILITARY SIMULATION. Here's the battlefield. Your enemy is out there. They have a base, and you have a base.

It's up to the commanders to set objectives that will lead one side or the other to victory, the victory condition being that your enemy is no longer able to sustain operations in the field and the territory is no longer available to them.

Here's an example. You have two TEAMS. Not SEAL TEAM SIX and THE JIHADISTS, just two teams. For example, WOLFPACK versus COALITION FORCES, or whatever. Both teams have a BASE. The base is their only mechanism of support, and it must be protected at all costs. The commanders will establish base defences and coordinate offensive operations in addition to defence in order to destabilize the other team's operation.

A particular piece of terrain may have tactical or strategic significance. This is not a result of it BEING LABELLED as such, but rather, it really does have significance, like a bridge over a river or a piece of high ground with goold lines of sight and defensive qualities that can be used as a forward command post, listening post, observation post, sniper hide...WHATEVER. The commanders need to sort out wheter the terrain is significant enough, from a strategic perspective, to warrant capturing and holding, while maintaining enough manpower to sustain defensive and offensive operations.

If the other side comes to the same conclusion about a piece of land, then engagements will happen as the operation develops into a war of attrition.

I'm sick of "search the missile base" or "retrieve the suitcase". These are objectives that are neither realistic nor particularly creative or engaging. This does not mean that objectives of this type have no place in the type of game I'm proposing, where the enemy may have in their position some item or device that may be of REAL STRATEGIC OR TACTICAL SIGNIFICANCE. Again, the commanders will have to decide if such an objective warrants commiting forces to capture it, and if the loss of those forces (which must ALWAYS be assumed) will affect the overall posture of their forces and ability to sustain combat operations.

There are no effin lunch breaks. There are no "bomb up" periods. You hit the field, and you're out there until you're DEAD or the game is OVER. You eat when you can, sleep IF you can, and carry as much ammo as you need. Ammunition loadouts are restricted to real-world equivalents, mags are charged at 30 rounds, and you can carry as many mags as you can fit in your gear. No hicaps, no bags of ammo in the field.

When you're hit, you walk your ass out and wait a predetermined time (like, an HOUR) and reenter with reinforcements EN MASSE, reporting to a command post to receive orders, just like the real world. Real battlefields don't have steady streams of reinforcements who walk on the field as soon as they touch the respawn point. Bringing in reinforcements is costly and time consuming. Allowing forces to deminish for a longer period of time allows for strategic territory to change hands, instead of continuously being under assault while players respawn, are healed by medics, WHATEVER, and get right back in the fight.

You have a commander, and you DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD. The commander is working out a complex plan that you are usually a minor part of. You need to understand that your personal kill count is unimportant; what's important is accomplishing your objective, and your objective is whatever your commander tells you it is. If that means sitting in a hole for 8 hours, then you happilly sit in a hole for 8 hours because THAT IS MILITARY SIMULATION.

Forcing longer respawn periods makes it more costly to suffer casualties, which forces a commander to weight all options very carefully before comitting to an action. It also creates a repurcussion for getting hit, which is, you're on your ass for an HOUR until you can get back in the fight. When you know you're going to respawn in 20 seconds or you have a medic who can heal you right away, you're more prone to take chances you wouldn't take otherwise, tactics that are neither realistic nor advisable in a real warfare scenario.

If you're shot in a real battle, you're out. You don't come back to the fight in 20 seconds. A medic doesn't touch you on the shoulder and magically heal you.

Game starts at XX:XX. You get there well before start time and sort your shit out. Then you're on the field, and it's GAME ON.

You should never, EVER need to call an organizer to get clarification on an objective. If that happens, then the organizer failed to account for all possible outcomes, which is why the best milsim games don't have organizers who set objectives, they have organizers who set the rules of engagement and the lay of the land. Other then that, they don't need to do anything beyond listening for NO DUFF calls and responding as required.

You are going to WAR. You don't know where you're enemy is coming from, you don't know what tactics they'll employ, you don't know what their objectives are, and you sure as hell don't want to get gunned down.

Scenarios like this create opportunities for specific roles like Special Operations Forces who will provide special reconnaisance or direct action if required. The majority of the work, however, is done by the infantry, who are the bulk of the force that operate at the commander's direction in order to facilitate deployment and action by those forces.

Uniform requirements are STRICT. IFF is important. Communications are a MUST, and that measn proper communications, not chatting on the frequency like schoolgirls on their cell phones.

I have played MILSIM games where I was in the field, without rest, for 48 hours. I was part of a 6-man SF team. The terrain we were operating on was completely unfamiliar to all parties. We carried 75Lbs packs (or more) out to a tactical hide from which to perform Special Operations, where we established a hide and waited for orders. When those orders came, we acted as the tip of the spear while the "regular infantry" did their job.

At the end of the game, we were exhausted, hungry, and filthy. Eaten alive by all kinds of bugs, close encounters with Moose and Deer and Coyotees, in the pitch black of the wilderness with nothing but night vision and compasses to give us a direction.

It was the best game I've ever played.
Originally Posted by Deaf_shooter View Post
what if it model after his?

Last edited by MadMorbius; September 12th, 2007 at 10:28..
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