Hey Brian and peeps who replied,
I read everyone's points and I'd like to elaborate on them and my own...
Originally Posted by ert
Full auto is rarely used for room clearing anymore. It's just too inaccurate and wasteful when one or two rounds in semi can do the job just as good. That's why the US has gone to burst round M16's... troops were depending on full auto way too much. Now I'm not saying it's never used... cause that would be an outright lie, but the majority of CQB/MOUT/FIBUA/whatever-you-want-to-call-it training now is done semi only.
Originally Posted by Squire
Umm... I'm not sure about that. We've had a few games with full auto fire in them, and the results were not encouraging.
There was one game I can vividly remember where it was a "one man's alone in that building, and he can fire full auto." When we rushed the building, I, the sorry second in, was hit seven times before I could call "hit". With semi, you'd get hit maybe twice before you can call hit.
When you think that we play probably 30 runs of the scenario in a night, that's a lot of welts to count up when you get home. Add to that two or three times a week, and you're looking at a very interesting skin complexion.
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
Actualy full auto fire is not standard doctrin for precision room clearing.
Semi automatic fire is much more controlable and results in less "fratricide"
The SMG was designed for high volume of fire at close range .. which I guess includes CQB but my experience indicates that semi auto is much more effective for engaging targets and being able to select targets.
Full auto is fun.. no argument there ... but in reality its use is effective only in certain situtations.
The reason M16A2's are burst and semi only is for a number of reasons but one of them is NOT because it's ineffective as a CQB weapon. One of the main reasons is your average dumb grunt has a little problem with squeezing and holding the trigger when feeling threatened. Cause we arent dumb american grunts (I HOPE) we should be given the option of full auto when the situation requires it.
If someone is shot 7 times with auto in extremely close quarters its the shooters fault whether or not they were using semi or auto. A 7 shot burst is ridiculous if you are few feet away...although I have shot people maybe 10 times at 20 feet with semi before they 'felt' the shot and gave up...so maybe it could be both parties fault...if everyone would immediately raise their hands when they feel the smallest hit Im sure that the problem would go away.
All of the premiere counter terrorist/SWAT teams (GIGN, JTF2, SEALS, SAS, FBI HRT, ETF, LAPD ETC.) main arsenals are full auto capable weapons. They might have rear guard positions with semi only assault rifles but they are the exception not the rule. Rifles have more penetration (risk of injury to bystanders or team members) and are also harder to control in full automatic fire. SMG's however are by definition full auto capable and fire a pistol round that has low penetraion and relatively low damage but high controllability in fully automatic firing. OK so 'precision' training doesnt use it you say...Im personally unaware of that, I would love to read some books on the subject and with your extensive fighting knowledge Brian Im sure you have. Could you please point me in the right direction? I do know one thing about the training of one tactical team first hand...Toronto's ETF. I have seen them train and they train with full auto. They use controlled bursts. With only 30 rounds in a magazine you would be wise to use semi for most shots or better yet you could CONTROL all your bursts in full auto. Why not have the option in airsoft if fully automatic firing is true in real life and realism is desired? The limited ammo negates the main problem with full auto in airsoft; spraying...
I could be dead wrong but in terms of REALISM maybe SMG's and machine pistols should be allowed to have full auto at TTAC3 and long arms (shotguns, assault rifles) should be semi only. I dont want to start a flame war I just wanted to start an open, respectful and informed discussion. I have had an excellent time when I have played at your field Brian and I would like to play there again so please don't ban me 'cause of a little disagreement :wink: