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Old September 15th, 2015, 18:51   #58
Lego Head
Dracheous's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gatineau, that's right I'm in QUEBEC!
Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
Commitment to what exactly? Growing the sport? Enforcement of the rules? Making money? Investing in proper gear? Mentoring the next generation? Playing as a team? Maybe following the goddam rules? Of course everyone needs commitment, but saying everyone needs commitment is like saying everyone needs a pulse to play. Of course they do. Basically your post says; "if everyone did what they were supposed to, they could all just get their blue ribbon and go home.".

Also, apprently airsoft to you is naked Asians running through the forest getting shot at, because it may have happened in Vietnam? Or am I reading that incorrectly?

As someone who has played airsoft avidly for a decade, I can tell you that all of these things mentioned in this thread have always existed. It's just now that they are far more rampant. I know many experienced, long time players have just straight up quit in the last two years, vowing never to return. I guess if you're gonna complain you should do something about it. But like any sport, there comes a time when leagues and the like are formed to take it further and cut out the BS. This would be an incredible undertaking of course.

I'm telling you, having entry requirements and strict rule enforcement LIKE ANY F'ING SPORT ANYWHERE, EVER, will mostly fix these issues. That way those who wish to focus strictly on the competitive side can build something and those who want to just run around like a naked Asians can do their thing, just completely separately. But only if you all have commitment...

Well, you seem rather irritated as though there was some personal bias toward your own remarks. I'm sure you're aware that it's already been made apparent that getting into public debates or personal attacks is not condoned for this thread.

However; commitment refers to commitment to the game full stop.

When I started this game a plastic TM M4 would ring you up to $700 new pending your point of import. All that got you was the gun and a mag; that was it. Typically you saw very shitty quality knock off tac vests for around $100 a piece and a solid knock off Phantom CIRAS chest rig cost you upwards of $300, mags were $25-50/pc pending what rifle/pistol you had.

The point was that back in the day you would have to drop a serious investment in kit and gear to play the game. If you didn't have a $1000 kicking around it would take you time to save up; and you were left with borrowing or renting kit from other people to play. This built commitment.

Using the first link that appeared at the top right of this page ((for me was and I know nothing about these people)) you can get a G&G AR for under $200, a CIRS vest for $125, and mags for $12-15/pc. Really the only thing I've not noticed a massive reduction in cost are GBB pistol mags.

For less than $500 today you can have a very solid array of kit and gear to play this game. And that's not even shopping the classifieds. When back in the day you NEEDED the ASC classifieds because importation dried up and drove costs through the roof. I remember paying $1300 for a CA M249. Now that same 249 you get new for less than the cost of the knock off from A&K was back then.

I doubt many new players are making much more than $2000/month; some are yes. But you must realize that when the sport to start could cost you more than one months income, you had to make some decisions on if this was for you or not. Many players came and went because the cost was simply too high. I remember comparing the annual costs of just playing, not gun and kit, to my real steel hobby and was astounded by the costs. Back then if I went to one good game a month, it was anywhere from $25-50 walk on pending the size of the game, $20 in ammo if I didn't use the 249, $20 in gas, and then you always brought snacks and food for the day as well as stopped somewhere after to AAR and laugh about that days fun in the bush. That equaled anywhere from 1050-1400/year with out factoring the REALLY big games that involved driving several hours and camping over night(s) for the weekend. In reloading costs; that's 4000-6000/9mm rounds I could had reloaded.

So now, if you've thrown a months income at this sport just too play, another half months income to play just one game a month for a year; are you really going to want to risk loosing that investment because you didn't want to call your hit? Simply speaking, the costs of this game at one time were a major deterrent from bad sportsmanship. Did it alone solve all the problems? No it did not. I remember that I got a "life time ban" from ALL fields in Ottawa because I argued with a particular member about the volume of hi-cap magazines. Said ban held no merit as he was not even a range owner; and it was his first game as host. And yes, this was because the mag limit was one high cap or however many "real-cap" mags you could carry. Pointed out that AK hi-caps got 600-700rnds in them while AR hi caps got 300; so why the advantage to said group that bought AK's at the time? I got banned from "entering Quebec" because I requested a translation of a field waiver. Now I live in Quebec so again; people say and do silly things.

Now the game has changed, where for less than a 2 week pay you can get enough kit to rock with the "elite" back in the day. And if you get ejected so what? You can sell the thing off, trade it away for something else, or like countless other things you spent stupidly on just let it collect dust in the closet. And yes I'm aware that there are probably people still struggling to afford this game today; and I hold nothing against them, because I suspect they're going to want to keep playing and will tend to follow the rules and get involved with groups so that they can get to more games and get more out of the little bit of money they could afford towards having a good time.

So now, the suggestion is this; there is more onus on the rest of the members to keep new people in the group; to make playing by the rules a better interest to them. Simply saying "we will BAN you!" does nothing if there is nothing to loose. Expecting the field owner to be responsible for the actions of all on the field is equally disastrous. Fields require rules and safety precautions to keep the owner from being liable to injuries on his premise. This was one reason why you saw even enforcement of rules across the board, with ROE's, FPS limits, and General Harassment rules. You chip your tooth and limits to FPS were inforced, ROE distances were followed, and game play stopped to get you proper treatment; then the owner is not likely to be found liable for you getting your tooth chipped. But if a 700fps gun is let on a field with a maximum engagement range of say 50m; and the owner says "GO FOR IT!" Well, he ought to had known that was a bad idea and would likely be liable. But if he was committed to safety and to the best his abilities ensured that people were using safe AEG/GBB and ROE's then he'd likely be safe. But that court case to determine this could be devastating in costs.

Again, while I digress, that word commitment keeps coming up.

The suggestion is when you have new people you pull em in, and keep em in the game. They see putting in time and effort to stay involved and keep playing as a benefit to the money and time they have already invested to keep going. And are likely to follow rules as a result.

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