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Old November 20th, 2014, 10:37   #104
Cameron SS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Originally Posted by venture View Post
Cameron, didn't you acknowledge that low power air guns are exempt from the firearms act and some of the cc? In that case, would the mag limits also be exempt?
No. The exemption for sub 500 FPS Firearms found in section 84(3) specifically says that the FIREARM is exempt. No mention of magazines. This fact has been argued in court repeatedly and every single gun owner has lost. Magazines are not exempt from anything. The only thing that might save you is if the RCMP choose not enforce it, which for the time being, seems to be their intent.

Originally Posted by Dracheous View Post
SCC can't "change" law at all. They can only enforce it as per interpretation of the government issued policies. They can "strike" a law down based on the legal definitions of that law in regards to its constitutional application.

Nothing in this "ruling" is new. And if you think this is contrived you should look at some bylaws around the country. In Ottawa by application of the cities definition of "firearm" a nailgun is prohibited from discharge with in city limits!
Care to provide a reference for that?

Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
This ruling is meaningless anyways. The guy is arguing and interpreting law, that in his eyes, makes our airsoft guns a completely different classification, and with them, more restricted rules of ownership. If it was true, the court case wouldn't be needed for that. Many of us remember when airsoft was illegal, or at least in the grey, how they couldn't be imported, retailers getting busted, clear receivers, etc. The laws were/are amended to give airsoft its own set of standards, so we can exist in Canada. Things have become less restricted and not more, period. This court case happened because some guy allegedly threatened another human being with an pellet gun, and therefore committed a criminal offense, and they are making sure the appropriate repercussions are met. That's what the court case is about, not airsoft. Then some guy from CGN comes over here and posts information that we have gone over, in fine detail, for over a decade, and isn't intuitive enough to realize that we airsoft owners exist in Canada legally for a reason.

.....FU$&@IN' DOH!!!
Was this meant to be a reasoned argument, or rhetoric?
At the absolute very least, regardless of what you think the ruling means in its subtleties, the fact that the supreme court of Canada upheld a ruling in Ontario and agreed with those reasons, means that it this application is now valid across Canada, and not just in Ontario.

The supreme court of Canada does not exist to waste its time and taxpayers money on meaningless rulings.

Look at the actual charges the guys was charged with. They were all Part 3 firearms charges, and not, true crimes, like assault, threats, etc.

S. 86 careless handling
S. 87 Pointing
S. 88 Possession for a purpose dangerous
S. 90 Carrying a concealed.

The defense argued not guilty because in order to be considered a firearm, an airgun must ALSO be a weapon. In order to be considered a weapon, you had to have INTENT TO USE IT AS SUCH, ie in a harmful way.

The ONCA said NO, intent is not required, airguns are ALWAYS firearms if they shoot more than 214. This means that anyone in possession of a +214 firearm is ALWAYS subject to the above sections, regardless of INTENT.

Airsoft has previously been subject to storage regs under 86(2). Possession for a purpose dangerous to the public peace requires intent regardless of the object, so isn't an issue either. Carrying concealed should be a no brainer, as long as your are transporting it according to the regs, it is not being 'carried'. The big red flag there should be pointing, which no longer requires intent to use as a weapon. Simply by virtue of being a firearm, you can not point it.

Originally Posted by rc_p120 View Post
So all of our airsoft guns less than 500fps but more than 214fps (read-just about all of them) are now considered real firearms.... How the fuck is this not a devastating blow to the airsoft community again? This was a Supreme Court of Canada decision not a twitter status.
Agreed, you can take what you will from the definition, and we can all it debate it until we are blue in the face. The one thing that this ruling ISN'T, is meaningless.

Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
The Supreme Court of Canada isn't going to war against every law abiding airsofter because some dude doing something stupid, that did not include the use of airsoft guns. How this may affect you? If you take an airsoft gun, pellet gun, BB gun, paintball gun, etc, and threaten someone with it, they'll likely lean in the same direction. This was a court case, nothing more, and in court cases they need to decide on clarification or else their case gets thrown out on a technicality. Any airsoft gun, or related device, used in a crime is treated as a firearm. That isn't a new sentiment. Also other branches such as the RCMP and CBSA have recognized the legitimacy, legal status and purpose or use of airsoft guns in Canada.

But I digress. Let's say the sky is falling, what do you expect to happen? How about a simultaneous arrest and execution of every known Okay, then we'd see a legal change or shut down in all retailers, and then they'd ask all airsofter's to turn in their guns for destruction, may even award is a grace period of one year, etc. Or, the alternative is, that airsoft has been made more legal and more available due to its positive spread internationaly, and within Canada, and the government, including all concerned branches have become relaxed and lenient for a sensical coexistence. No, better to assume that one court ruling undoes all of the progress made on a whim, and because some guy is a jackass. Not only is nothing likely to change in a negative way because of this, this won't be the last court case of its kind or similar. I don't think the sky will fall then either.

But just in case, you better give me your guns before the RCMP get you, and go get a helmet and umbrella to block the sky from killing you. You could get a sticker for the side of your helmet that says "I need this".
Despite your personal insults, you raise some good points.

If you want to know how illegal airsoft items may be treated, look at how firearms owners have been treated under similar circumstances.

When the RCMP re-evaluated the status of a recent 'restricted' (read: registered) firearm of which there were only 50 in Canada, they sent notices to everyone by mail saying you have 30 days to surrender the firearm, or else you will be charged. In this case, due to registration, the RCMP knew where each and every gun was, and there weren't very many of them. Asides from two people who opted to challenge the notice in court, everyone else complied.

In a more recent example, when another firearm, a Non restricted firearm (read: unregistered) of which there are tens of thousands of them in Canada, was reclassified as prohibited, the RCMP could NOT send out notices cause they didn't know who owned what.

There are millions of various air soft, paintball, and pellet guns out there, and while the guns themselves are exempted from licensing etc, and that has not changed, by determining that these things are firearms, their mags are now probably illegal, and the thousands of canadians pointing one at someone else right now are probably committing criminal offences.

Obviously the RCMP do not have the resources to even begin to address this, and have no idea who owns what. No one is going to get visited by the RCMP, or receive any notice in the mail. This does not mean you are safe.

One thing the RCMP does not do, is act impulsively. There has only been two weeks since we have had this national level ruling. It could be months before the senior brass develops a policy on how to handle this.

As someone else already mentioned I think the Canary in the coal mine will be the retailers. If all of a sudden they are pulling 30 rd mags off the shelves, you'll know that things have started rolling.

I wouldn't go out and sell anything just yet, nor would I would go on a panicked shopping spree buying up all the mags while you can.

I also don't think an umbrella would be all that useful either, because if a significant portion of the sky does fall, it probably won't have sufficient mass to injure, but a large enough gap in the atmosphere could cause an increase in radiation or heat loss problems....

Last edited by Cameron SS; November 20th, 2014 at 10:40..
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