Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
I have set conditions in some of my games where opposing forces could deploy intelligence assets, as an element of the game, and of the story. In each and every case that I have done so it was up to those people to infiltrate the enemy forces of on their own using guile and deception, and with no assistance from anyone. Yes.. they had to "act"
I have also provided clues in the backstory as to the possibility of this happening.
In addition anyone who choses to accept such a risky role goes in with ONE life with no respawn. If they get caught.. they are out of the game. Can you imagine the satisfaction of the player who executes their mission successfully? I can, because I have seen it happen those players come back.
I have also used ongoing games to provide training opportunities for third forces to conduct single objective one life missions within the context of an ongoing game without the knowledge of the other players. In one game I had 5 different factions operating on the field Most people only knew of 2. But as the game went on evidence of the activities of unknown forces became suspected .. then known.
in most cases these things are very successful in providing an element of confusion, and stress within the players, and frankly it's the only means to attract some players who have withdrawn from the wider community.
Of course this does mean that my games are not GREEN vs TAN line up and pull triggers kind of affairs.. you have to pay attention, think and be aware of your weak spots lest they be exploited. You have to read and analyze the back stories to bring context to the game. You may be required to interact with opposing forces or unknown elements in more than a "lets get em!" context..
I can tell when people don't bother to do these things because they end up confused, distressed and in some cases upset when things get "weird" and often they don't come out to my games anymore. Which in fact self corrects the problem.
I know we differ in our approach to game design, but I'm pretty sure there is room for everyone.
Clearly FR has a winning series in nightfall.. people like it, everyone likes it milsim players, and skirmishers alike, so you're doing something right.
It's clear that you don't like "my kind of games" that challenge players to do more than load mags and count bodies and that is ok, not everyone has to. But we do have to work together and respect each other. We play in the same sandbox.
Try Operation Cove if you want challenge for mission set, high/slow OP Tempo, physical challenges in operating on foriegn soil, new rugged terrain fighting in high altitudes with adverse weather conditions which puts high demand on physical fitness, tactical skill and the constant alertness in patroling, game dynamic changed but it is not "Play acting"or ppl signing up on 1 team to turn around shoot you in the back or gain intel (a very quick way to fuck over someone/Game host game)...small group 2 40 man platoons fighting/patrolling against one another as a Platoon/Squad/Recce Det (In Cove Virginia)...
I was in the Military for 8 years and on 2 Operational tasking, I can assure you when you talk about MILSIM...unless it is the real thing it ain't period. I have yet seen a game bring out true MILSIM however I have been to games where the game host tries to bring in realism/tasking/simulation in the enviroment that challenge you as a leader or your Squad. I was a Senior NCO in the Army Reserves and have pushed Troops to the brink on TRG and Courses. MILSIM to me is game where I am looking for a better OP then scrimming...Mission or Missions set for the Operational Tasking on hand. Fair to both sides...not where one side gets a real mission while another goes on a fucking treasure hunt. Most OPs/MILSIM aren't true in an aspect due to the capabilies of the weapons used ie. You hide behind bush, I shoot through the bush, in the real world your dead in airsoft you hang on in most cases until the assault goes through and you can take out a couple ppl...Fire fights are never really won in some cases because most of the fighting happens in 30 meters minus your basically in the assault before the Firefight is won, the physical fitness of Troops/ppl who play are not in the best shape...hey I am 20 pounds heavier then what I should normally be but I still work out I can still run and Bench press 260lds for a set 6 (don't box anymore) point I am getting too is Cove was 24 hour OP that I completed and My Squad for 24 hours./ OP Sovereign Fury was 30 hour Op which I fought the Fight for 27 hours 15 mins and finished the OP, most players can't do 24 hour MILSIM let alone 18 hours. MILSIM Brian isn't what you say, what I say or even what Force Recon says. MILSIM is percieved in different perceptions by other ppl. I only have been on 2 shit show games in the 5 years I have been involved in the community, recently in Atlanta Georgia and Barrie last summer...no Brian I didn't think OP Deadfall 2 was a shit show, I had some reservations but the gameship amoungst the players in hit calling was fair. The only reservation I had was at the end, however that game is now over done with.
Airsoft Canada en bodies everyone on this forum...everyone has an opinion. Game host will introduce games and land mark it "MILSIM"...the game host who has the BEST SCENARIO/MISSION/REALISM/HONORABLE PLAYERS AND STAFF/REASONABLE GAME ADMISSION will get my money and my time. Just because a GAME HOST states the Game is MILSIM (or 30 hours) doesn't mean the cost should be high and if it is there better be something substantial given back to the players along with their experience.
Now I am 1 of the Commanders For Force Recon MILSIM, this post does not reflect my Team members Opinions. However 1 thing for sure at any game this TEAM gives 100% win or lose, I push the the shit out of my guys TRG (not as bad as I 1rst started)...the best games we as Team have been to is South of the border minus Atlanta Georgia...I have yet been to a game in Canada that fills that void (RHINO 1 was close to the bullshit at the end.."maybe play acting got involved" and ruin it for some...AAR reflected it the short comings but ppl chest thumped and ignored them)...with that being said I like too see another Game Host in Canada run a MILSIM with true objectives/mission set/2 teams that follow the Chain of Command/ Realism with a Espirit De Cours and Comraddie during and at the end of the game. With that being said I think Csk should give it another Try, I for one will attend.
Again this post does not reflect my Teams Opinion, this is mine and mine alone.