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-   -   FCC 2013 new release (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=152394)

Ricochet March 17th, 2014 12:13

And "some" of their receivers.

ThunderCactus March 17th, 2014 16:26

If the dealers and stakeholders really DO have the top end prototypes and we're stuck with the BS they're marketing, then that REALLY grinds my fucking gears. Straight up insulting to no end. It's like a Rolex dealership spent months advertising their watches and went and sold us chinese knockoffs for 15% MORE than a real Rolex. And then you call them on it, and the salesman is like "well MY Rolex that I bought here is a real Rolex, so you must be full of crap."

So this whole time these (very few) persons have been arguing against us saying FCC is good, and their FTW is awesome, it's been because they had a special we-suck-your-dick model?
And after being presented with a pile of indisputable evidence against FCC, their argument is their special blowjob model is good, therefore people should still buy FTWs.
That's absurd.

But just to show that I am fair, I will (no bullshit) give someone $20 to post up a detailed and photographed review of a quality, properly working, and at least up to systema-spec FTW bought in 2014, specifically detailing every spot where we have found faults in this thread and showing that it is INDEED problem free and worth at least as much as a systema.

Show me your cake!

Ricochet March 17th, 2014 17:46

Yeah, but then you still have two severe problems. For starters is the cost. It's so much higher than Systema, but yet doesn't keep up performance wise. Who cares about fancy externals, I can customize it myself later. Second, if you're even going to bother, then you have to make up for Systema's short comings, motor, hop, lower receiver, etc. Couple that with a guarantee/warranty, and we'll talk. Otherwise what's the point? Why wouldn't someone buy a Systema instead?

Screw it because it works, it's a product, it's suppose to work.

ThunderCactus March 17th, 2014 18:50

Well to give them credit, factor in the cost of the rails and special receiver and stock on there, they come out being about on par with systema. But DTW quality or less...

-Trooper- March 18th, 2014 12:56

I'm no FCC rep, just a average shooter that was tired of fixing problems with AEGs and the lack of accuracy with GBBRs.

I wish I could take your money ThunderCactus, but I bought my FCC 416 back in 2013. As you may know, it has been running fine. I'm still running the 2.5 motor and the only thing I have upgraded was the hopup rubber and the pinion gear.

I haven't really kept up with FCC's products, but the last time I checked their FTWs had cast bodies, not CNC.

One other person I know recently got his FTW and withstood the torture test they put it through.

Now, I don't have access to that FTW since it's not mine, but were there any concerns I can answer for you guys?

ThunderCactus March 18th, 2014 16:50

They state on the site that they're receivers are all machined from billet, but all the receivers we've seen so far have been machined castings.
If you DO want to check something for me, I'd like to know if the motor hole in your receiver is to spec. After taking apart Austin's FTW it's apparent they may have fixed the gear lash issue, the only other major flaw is the motor hole.

What I'm looking for is a decent sample size of 2014 FTW's to verify if they've been fixing problems or not. A few AEG companies have improved their game over the years, maybe FCC can do the same.

The other, and most important, issue is something that can only be verified by a sample of FTWs, and that's product consistency.

So, I'll trust that yours, and that other FTW in the GTA area are good. And we'll even assume they are up to or surpassing systema specs.

But even then, based on what we're finding, only 1 in 7 FTW's are any good.
So even if they CAN make a same quality or better product than systema, what is the point in buying one if there's a 6 in 7 chance that you'll end up with a $3000 DTW?

SuperHog March 18th, 2014 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus (Post 1876896)
They state on the site that they're receivers are all machined from billet, but all the receivers we've seen so far have been machined castings.

I had this debate "STEALTH", he told me in the airsoft world, "billet" is slang for "pot metal"

http://airsoftcanada.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=24

redneck12 March 18th, 2014 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus (Post 1876896)

But even then, based on what we're finding, only 1 in 7 FTW's are any good.
So even if they CAN make a same quality or better product than systema, what is the point in buying one if there's a 6 in 7 chance that you'll end up with a $3000 DTW?

Just shows you need to win the lottery and buy 7 FTWs in order to get one if your lucky it's like going to Vegas and playing Craps.

c3sk March 18th, 2014 19:45

I sold off my PTW's, both were constructed from scratch with FCC parts and Systema bodies (One was an FCC Noveske body build) They are still going to this day without any problems. With the exception of the 416 I had from FCC, stripping of the FCC pinion gears was a major concern and pain in the ass. From what I noticed while watching FCC's product releases, was that they became quite inconsistent with tolerances of their upper and lowers and overall CNC build quality. I think the pinnacle for FCC quality was right when they started releasing their first build of rifles, and the first 416 line, they were heavily focused on quality and scrutinized over the details of each rifle, and as such were able to maintain a warranty program. After that quality control seemed to slip considerably.

Of course this exact same thing has happened to Systema, so I am not really surprised. At the end of the day, as the end user, I will take what ever works best from multiple companies and build a custom blaster as I always have.

I think FCC can be salvaged for the Canadian market if they go back to doing what they were doing best. Making replacement parts for reasonable prices to fill the gap and demand which Systema created.

dongtheimpaler March 18th, 2014 19:57

I have an FCC 416 that I received from DTT in early 2013. I haven't changed anything on the gun and it has been running perfectly fine this whole time. I'm not a tech by any stretch of the imagination so there certainly could be issues if I opened up the gun and scrutinized it.

ThunderCactus March 18th, 2014 20:51

Specifically the reason I want 2014 FTW's for this is because the problem isn't the first set of guns they built, it's their current guns. Can't judge a company based on their first line of guns.
I still want to take apart a 3.0 motor, haven't heard good things about them so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperHog (Post 1876935)
I had this debate "STEALTH", he told me in the airsoft world, "billet" is slang for "pot metal"

http://airsoftcanada.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=24

Except you don't forge pot metal into a billet, then machine it, you might as well spend the extra for real metal for the amount of machining required lol
It's also far more cost effective to cast and machine. A more correct saying is; "CNC" in the airsoft world, means a CNC machine once performed some sort of operation on the cast part.

Even with high quality castings that have been machined, there are always tell tale signs of it being a casting. Like systema for example, when someone breaks an upper receiver, there's usually some anodized black spots on the broken side of the receiver tabs, those are casting cracks from uneven cooling.
With FCC, the most notable faults are where they machined through the wall between the mag well and mechbox areas. In a casting that's to proper size, like systema, you wouldn't get that break through.
Unfortunately, but fortunately, nobody's broken an FCC receiver yet to inspect that. It's not often someone spear throws a ptw anyway, let alone an ftw.

Azathoth March 19th, 2014 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus (Post 1876965)
. It's not often someone spear throws a ptw anyway, let alone an ftw.

Challenge accepted., next time we see each other. Hope you can catch.

Ricochet March 19th, 2014 09:08

Kind of a moot point, once again it isn't an improvement, may as well go with Systema. Remember, it's all about better, or what's the point? You're charging more for less no matter how you slice it. Systema hop-up is solid, with the mod is fantastic. Systema motor is an unknown, with the mod is fantastic. Systema receiver is more than good enough, may require an upgrade or replacement should the worst happen. Basically that's it though. Go that path, and technically you end up with the best airsoft gun on the market for around $2,000. FCC is not an improvement on "any" area, especially on the ones that Systema needed improvement. I'd say their hop-up was a little better, but maybe not as solid as a stock Final Evolution. Cylinders, barrel, boards, gear box, etc, aren't quite as good as Systema, yet here's a "higher" price tag? Even if there are FCC guns out there still running, a modded Systema is far superior for much less. I think they dropped their custom parts and careful manufacturing, for fancy, overpriced platforms.

-Trooper- March 19th, 2014 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus (Post 1876896)
They state on the site that they're receivers are all machined from billet, but all the receivers we've seen so far have been machined castings.
If you DO want to check something for me, I'd like to know if the motor hole in your receiver is to spec. After taking apart Austin's FTW it's apparent they may have fixed the gear lash issue, the only other major flaw is the motor hole.

What I'm looking for is a decent sample size of 2014 FTW's to verify if they've been fixing problems or not. A few AEG companies have improved their game over the years, maybe FCC can do the same.

The other, and most important, issue is something that can only be verified by a sample of FTWs, and that's product consistency.

So, I'll trust that yours, and that other FTW in the GTA area are good. And we'll even assume they are up to or surpassing systema specs.

But even then, based on what we're finding, only 1 in 7 FTW's are any good.
So even if they CAN make a same quality or better product than systema, what is the point in buying one if there's a 6 in 7 chance that you'll end up with a $3000 DTW?

Ya I can check the motor hole. Might take a couple of days before I have time. What should be spec for the motor hole?

ThunderCactus March 19th, 2014 19:06

the motor shouldn't move side to side at all, and the hole should be centered in the receiver


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